So reverb is what made them sell, but the LPs without extra reverb sold more than the one with it?...
One final word on IBB...I was looking through some other posts on another thread concerning the various latter-day Capitol pressings; someone mentioned that the "less-reverb" version of IBB appeared on the 1983 "new rainbow" Capitol pressing. If this is when the "new' version appeared on Beatles '65, I wouldn't know of it as i don't have a copy of that particular pressing. So possibly, we've both been right all along but from different ends.
That's true, and it explains why you have a sentimental attachment to the reverb... because it was part of your initial experience of the music, and thus part of your memories. This does not however make any sort of case for a causal relationship between the reverb and the band's sales success. You've suggested that since some radio stations added reverb and the Beatles were successful, the reverb must have a causal connection to their success. My counterargument is that those radio stations added reverb to every song they played, yet every song they played was not successful. My other counterargument is that the band was just as successful in markets where the radio stations did not add reverb. If you had evidence that these radio stations added more reverb to the Beatles than they did to other artists, then you would have a basis upon which to suggest a causal relationship between reverb and sales success. If you had evidence that the Beatles sold better in markets where the major stations added reverb, compared to markets where the major stations did not, then you would have a basis to suggest a causal relationship. But you do not have evidence of either thing. Just as it makes no sense to blame serial killing on a factor that is present in both killers and non-killers (childhood consumption of milk) it makes no sense to credit the Beatles' sales success to a factor that is present in both the Beatles' hits and in non-hits by other artists (added reverb by some radio stations). Rather, the cause of serial killing is likely something unique to the killers, just as the cause of the Beatles' success is likely something unique to the band's work. The part I've bolded is the key point. If they layered it on everything, then there's no reason to suggest it had any more effect on the sales of the Beatles than upon that of any other act.
"Digital reverberation can't compare with a real echo chamber, Capitol recording experts say. That's a claim they've shot down over and over and over again." Per Jazz news: Capitol Records Famed Echo Chamber at Risk Capitol Records Famed Echo Chamber at Risk SOURCE: ALL ABOUT JAZZ PUBLICITY April 23, 2008 Capitol says recording quality at its Hollywood building is at risk The music firm says a proposed high-rise next door would damage its unique underground echo chambers. No! No-o-o-o! No-o-o-o-o-o! That plea from Hollywood is reverberating through Los Angeles City Hall as officials try to decide whether a 16-story tower should be built next to the landmark Capitol Records building. A Marina del Rey developer hopes to construct 93 condominiums, 13,442 square feet of commercial and office space and a 242-space underground parking lot next to the landmark, 13-floor, record-shaped building. But Capitol executives are trying to stop the multimillion-dollar project because of fears that pile-driving and excavation for the three-level underground garage will damage one-of-a-kind, below-ground echo chambers that are used for high-end recordings. The developer has denied that the project would harm the reverberation equipment and has pledged to try to limit noise and vibration during construction. The famed echo chambers were designed by guitarist Les Paul and have been used by recording artists ranging from Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin to Chris Botti, Natalie Cole -- who just finished an album there -- and Brian Wilson, who used them last week. EMI Music North America, which operates Capitol Records, has appealed the city's preliminary approval of the high-rise, which is proposed for the southwest corner of Yucca Street and Argyle Avenue. Until 2005 that was the site of the KFWB-AM (980) radio station. “As a major employer in the Hollywood area, Capitol Records is extremely concerned about the viability of us being able to continue to run Capitol Studios in the face of the admittedly significant adverse impacts that will be caused by construction," said Maureen B. Schultz, a senior vice president at the recording company. In a letter to City Council members, Schultz explained that the echo chambers are on the east side of the record company headquarters at the corner of Vine and Yucca streets. They are buried 18 feet from the proposed excavation site. “We are not anti-development, and understand and support that Hollywood is changing and new development is part of that change," she said in the letter. But “the sound in the studios is one that cannot be replicated anywhere else in the world. The echo chambers are as much a part of the Hollywood history as the Capitol Tower and the Hollywood sign." The eight concrete chambers, built 30 feet underground, vary in shape to give different sounds. A speaker pipes music into one end of each chamber and a microphone picks up the reverberation at the other end. Capitol employees say their three recording studios are booked by artists who know the Vine Street echo effect is something that cannot be duplicated electronically or at any other studio. Although it is not part of EMI's appeal, record company workers and others in Hollywood also oppose the 16-floor tower because it would overshadow Capitol's iconic building by three stories and block views of the landmark from the nearby Hollywood Freeway. The Capitol tower was designed by architect Welton Becket and finished in 1956. It was the world's first circular office building. Music fans immediately embraced its look, which resembled a stack of vinyl 45s on a record turntable. Its spire is said to blink out the name “Hollywood" in Morse code at night. EMI's appeal of the project is one of two that have been filed. A separate objection has been lodged by Hollywood resident Jim McQuiston, who has lived for 48 years across the street from the tower site. He objects to it on seismic grounds. “It would affect me when it falls over on me," McQuiston, a Caltech-trained engineer, said Tuesday. In papers filed with the city, he asserted that “the so-called Yucca strand of the Hollywood Fault poses an extreme hazard" to the condominium tower. Developer David Jordan could not be reached for comment Tuesday. However, a lawyer representing the project dismissed McQuiston's concerns. “That seems, quite frankly, like an implausible scenario," Dale Goldsmith said of the tower toppling in an earthquake. “His apartment building would collapse before this one would. It would be built in accordance of latest earthquake standards." As far as Capitol Records' echo chambers are concerned, Goldsmith pledged that they will be safe during construction. “We're confident there won't be any long-term damage," he said. “We're prepared to indemnify them. They have a right to be concerned, but their concerns are exaggerated." Steps will be taken to limit vibration and noise, he said. “There are a series of mitigation measures to be taken during construction. Muffling devices, dewatering techniques, taking noise-generating equipment as far away as possible from Capitol," Goldsmith said. An acoustical study done for Jordan by an Oakland firm acknowledged that “without the mitigation . . . ground-borne noise from construction activities may temporarily impact operation of the echo chambers." But it suggested that “digital signal processing and other digital audio recording techniques can simulate almost every echo chamber effect." Capitol officials plan to refute that when the City Council's Planning and Land Use Management Committee reviews their appeal May 13. The entire council is expected to take up the issue May 27, committee Chairman Ed Reyes said Tuesday. Digital reverberation can't compare with a real echo chamber, Capitol recording experts say. That's a claim they've shot down over and over and over again."
It is of course possible that the LP with extra reverb - I presume we're referring to The Beatles' Second Album here - would have sold fewer copies without reverb. I don't happen to believe that, but it does seem perfectly possible.
Other factors probably came into play with sales of the Second Album. The initial success of the Beatles in the US had likely generated impulse purchases of Meet The Beatles out of pedestrian interest - not from just kids or music fans, but the general public at large. By the time of the Second Album, three months later, the story was slightly different and slightly old. The album did, however, replace MTB at #1 on the album charts. Meet The Beatles would sell 4 million copies by the end of 1964, whereas SA would move 1,668,435 copies by the end of 1964. Some buyers of MTB perhaps weren’t as crazy about the album as they had been about the singles they had heard on the radio (with added station reverb in many cases). Others - their curiosity piqued by Beatlemania news, the Ed Sullivan appearances, and radio play - satisfied that curiosity enough with buying the MTB album, whether they enjoyed the album thoroughly or not. Also, a lot of the material on SA had already been released in the US or Canada: ‘Beethoven’ had been available as a Canadian single (b/w ‘Mr. Postman’) and charted on the US charts as high as #30. ‘She Loves You’/‘I’ll Get You’ had already gone #1 as a Swan-label single. ‘Thank You Girl’ had been the B-Side of the ’Do You Want To Know A Secret’ Vee-Jay single, which charted as high as #1,2, and 3 on different charts. The rest of the cover songs the kids probably figured they could live without. That left ‘I Call Your Name’ as the one original Beatles song that some or most hadn’t heard before in some form.
Possible but unlikely, given we have no real evidence to support the theory that the reverb had any notable effect on sales either way. Given the fact that a majority of the sales of the Second Album were the mono version, which did not have added reverb, it seems unlikely the reverb was a factor. It's interesting to note that the two best-selling Capitol Beatles albums were Meet and Rubber Soul. What do those two have in common? They were the only Capitol albums that have 12 Beatles songs, and they were the only ones that featured original UK album cover designs rather than Capitol designs. Perhaps those factors are part of the reason they sold better.
Don't forget Magical Mystery Tour, which sold on par with the US Rubber Soul. US RS was probably boosted by its 6 December 1965 release date. (MMT itself had a Nov. 27, 1967 release date). Both albums reportedly outsold Meet The Beatles.
Revolver also had the same cover in the U.S. and UK (but 11 songs in the U.S.) I didn't realize Meet The Beatles and Rubber Soul were the only 12-song Capitol albums. Having gotten used to the UK albums over the years, the U.S. ones do sound short. Why wasn't "From Me To You" on The Beatles' Second Album, or even The Early Beatles? In 2004, we had a radio station in Chicago (I forget which one) that did a marathon of playing all the U.S. Beatles albums in their entirety on the 40th anniversary of their first Ed Sullivan appearance. (This also included the post-Revolver albums and compilations.) They would play Side 1, go to a commercial break and come back with Side 2. When they got to The Early Beatles, I noticed that they had played eight songs in a row and called it Side 1. I thought, that can't be right. When they continued, after the album they added "Misery," "There's A Place" and "From Me To You." I later learned that those songs had been added to the BEAT label "Capitol Versions" CD.
Which of the Capitol albums is the shortest, anyway? I'm guessing either The Early Beatles or Revolver...
That doesn't work like that. If the initial buyers of MTB were really disappointed, it couldn't have sold 4 millions copies. That kind of success means prolongued sales, it means people loved it. It's like in movies: a movie can make a lot of money the first weekend because of marketing or whatever factor. But if people don't like it enough, it will fall hard. To get to certain degree of success, they need people to like it a lot.
I don't think that most people had heard most of the songs from the Second Album, in the U.S.A., before this album was released. Yes, of course they had heard She Loves You. Fortunately for America, they got to hear these songs. Many of these songs didn't even make it onto a U.K. Beatles album until Past Masters. Years later.
Wrong: Thank You Girl - Rarities 1978 Long Tall Sally - Rock N Roll Music 1976 I Call Your Name - Rock N Roll Music 1976 I'll Get You - Rarities 1978 She Loves You - A Collection Of Oldies 1966
Per The Beatles' Second Album - The Beatles | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic "The Beatles' Second Album stands as probably the best pure rock & roll album ever issued of the group's music." Per The Beatles' American Chart Invasion: 12 Record-Breaking Hot 100 & Billboard 200 Feats
You've just made me realise that, if the Blue Box were released in 2017 instead of 1978, there's no way it wouldn't include A Collection of Oldies. (And, presumbly, Hey Jude). An almost complete set that isn't even almost complete.
I think the the idea was that Blue Box with Rarities + Red & Blue + MMT would give you a complete set at the time (maybe MMT should have been included though). Oldies and Hey Jude could be used in place of Red & Blue (though two tracks would then overlap with Rarities, and you would be missing the Let It Be and Get Back single versions).
@slane Is there a simple defintive list that identifies the core variants that allow you to make a statement thus:
I'm not sure what you mean... I was just saying that you also needed the Red & Blue albums plus MMT for a complete collection of songs (all stereo, except most of the tracks on Rarities).
