The Beatles - Capitol Albums Vol 1 & 2 v The US albums box sets.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by sunspot, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    [​IMG]
     
  2. ZippyPippy

    ZippyPippy Forum Resident

    ....... can be.....
     
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  3. Colocally

    Colocally One Of The New Wave Boys

    Location:
    Surrey BC.
    No it can’t.
     
  4. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    This!!

    Another Beatles thread that breaks into absolute stupidity.
     
  5. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    Your waiter analogy doesn't hold water: the waiter didn't manufacture your food, its wrapper, and plan how to get it to you over a great distance in a timely manner, so your analogy is a little off here. But who cares. I wouldn't tip them either.

    re: the Beatles,

    The hit song built over the rest of the 1963 and into the new year and didn't hit #1 on Billboard until February, 1964. Capitol showed up at the end of December with resourceful manufacturing, promotion, and distribution of the Beatles product to the rest of the country (not just regionally in DC, St. Louis, and Chicago, where the single had gotten advance airplay) in the Beatles' greatest time of need - when they were going from unknowns to being superstars in the US virtually overnight. Capitol not only promoted the heck out of the Beatles from that point on, most importantly it had the 'I Want To Hold Your Hand' single in the stores available for purchase in emergency fashion - which was a huge endeavor, getting records made and into the hands of the people that wanted to buy them almost immediately. Say what you want, but that was a great feat.

    The breaking of the single did not happen in the most conventional manner, granted, but Capitol went into overdrive once there was some genuine interest generated. I think it's cool that Capitol didn't force the Beatles on the US, letting the Stateside phenomenon evolve more or less organically; they didn't have to force the issue, though, since the Beatles were an international news story anyways due to the impact of the Beatlemania phenomenon in the UK, and the proliferation of the mass media of television and radio in the US. It truly was a technological and cultural intersection that converged to make it all happen.
     
  6. bradman

    bradman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lexington,KY
    I'm nostalgic for the albums...Meet the Capitols, Capitols '65, Capitols VI, The Capitols and Today.
    If the Beatles didn't exist, it would have been necessary for Capitol to invent them.
    Just not in narrow M-O-N-O.
     
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  7. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    But they do represent the 1960s to you, the time into which you were born.

    They didn't take place in a vacuum, nor are they listened to in a vacuum.
     
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  8. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    I wasn't around in the 60's, but I was around in the 80's and 90's, and the Capitol albums for a time were the only versions available, and continued to be readily available on cassette and vinyl for quite a while after the CD's came out. They weren't fully discontinued until sometime in the late 90's.
     
  9. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    Huh?
    The Beatles Are Coming promotion

    Hmm. Capitol let the stateside phenomenon evolve more or less organically. Hmm.

    How does an unprecedented promotional campaign, if not the biggest then one of the biggest in history, fit with "more or less organically"?

    Let's check the dictionary for definition that fits your usage in the above quote:

    "• in the course of gradual or natural development: "the market grew organically from its modest beginnings | national identity develops organically."

    Then let's have a look at that monumental, Jupiterean push:
    ...

    The BEATLES are coming!
    Teaser stickers and 1964 promotional campaign


    [​IMG]


    These orange & white Capitol promotional "teaser" stickers are among the earliest known items of Beatles memorabilia. The 3" x 2" stickers were designed to be placed by Capitol salesmen on "any friendly surface as you walk down the street". This was part of Capitol's initial January 1964 Beatlemania blitz to promote the release of the Meet The Beatles album and I Want To Hold Your Hand single. The stickers were made in large quantities in rolls of 250, and very few unused stickers exist today.
    Below is the text of the original December 1963 Capitol Records memo for sales managers and regional managers, outlining the initial "Beatles Campaign". The memo contains a lot of interesting, important and historical information about the promotional items issued and their planned uses and release dates. Described are easel-backed trade ads, Beatles "Booster" buttons, Beatle wigs, the stickers, a tabloid newspaper, promotional albums, die-cut jackets and the awesome Beatle Motion Display, today one of the most sought after and valuable Beatles promotional items.




    DATE: December 23, 1963
    TO:
    B/D Sales Managers, Regional Managers
    FROM:
    Paul Russell
    Office:
    National Merchandising

    [​IMG]
    MEMO

    ADDITIONAL MEETING SUBJECT: THE BEATLES! CAMPAIGN

    The contents of this memo should be distilled for presentation at the upcoming sales meetings. Sufficient copies are being sent to each Regional Manager so that he can hand one out to each of his branch managers who will be conducting their own meetings. Please make certain that all the pertinent information is relayed to the salesmen so they can be fired up to the maximum degree for the start of the Beatle Campaign.

    TRADE AD

    On Monday, December 30, a two-page spread will appear in Billboard (it may be in Cash Box, too, on that day, or it will run a week later). We have ordered large quantities of soft-sheet reprints of that ad. Each B/D will have these reprints in bulk. Make sure that all important radio station personnel and retail account personnel have their own personal copy of this ad. It's a good one, and will do the job of introducing them to the Beatles.

    We have also ordered easel-backed reprints of this ad in large quantity. All B/D's will have enough so that one should be on the counter of all of your important accounts. The copy on the easel-back has been changed to make the ad interesting to consumers. Put it where they'll see it, where they'll be impelled to buy both the Beatle single and LP.

    We've asked that both of these items arrive at B/D's no later than January 2, so you can start off the year of The Beatles on the right foot.

    "BE A BEATLE BOOSTER" BUTTONS

    Shortly after the first of the year, you'll have bulk quantities of a unique see-through plastic pin-on button. Inserted in each button is a shot of the Beatles, with each boy identified. What to do with the buttons? First, have all of your sales staff wear one. Second, offer them to clerks and jocks. Third, arrange for radio station give-always of the buttons. Fourth, keep some in reserve for the requirement which will be listed below under "Tabloid."

    BEATLE WIGS

    Again shortly after the First, you'll have bulk quantities of a Beatle hair-do wig. As soon as they arrive - and until further notice - you and each of your sales and promotion staff are to wear the wig during the business day! Next, see how many of the retail clerks in your area have a sense of humor. Then, try your jocks, especially those who hold hops. Then, offer some to jocks and stores for promotions. Get these Beatle wigs around properly, and you'll find you're helping to start the Beatle Hair-Do Craze that should be sweeping the country soon.

    "THE BEATLES ARE COMING" STICKERS

    As soon as possible after the First you'll have fantastic quantities of these two-inch by three-inch teaser stickers. Now, what are you going to do with these huge amounts of stickers? Put them up anywhere and everywhere they can be seen, that's what. It may sound funny, but we literally want your salesmen to be plastering these stickers on any friendly surface as they walk down the street or as they call on radio or retail accounts. That probably won't get rid of them all, however. Make arrangements with some local high school students to spread the stickers around town. Involve your friends and relatives. Remember the "Kilroy Was Here" cartoons that surfaced everywhere about 10 years ago? Well, now it's going to be "Beatles Are Coming" stickers that are everywhere you look.

    "NATIONAL RECORD NEWS - BEATLE ISSUE"

    Publicity Director Fred Martin has concocted a simply marvelous vehicle for spreading the Beatle story. It's a four-page tabloid newspaper which looks deceptively legitimate. But of course it's our doing, and all it contains is picture after picture and story after story on the Beatles.

    You'll be getting huge quantities of this tabloid. How to exploit it? Send bulk copies to major retailers for distribution to consumers. Offer bulks to jocks for give-away. But most important, make arrangements with local high schoolers to distribute them to fellow students after school (check with George Gerken on those arrangements). The idea is to get as many copies of this tabloid as possible into the hands of potential Beatle buyers. Don't, under any circumstances, end up with any large quantities of this tabloid sitting in your back room. They won't help there!

    Important note for Sales Office Managers. Because of your limited storage space, make immediate arrangements to send some of the tabloids out to your salesmen's homes, while you send others right out to retailers. Just keep on hand that quantity you'll distribute through the high school students.

    BEATLE PROMO LP'S AND DIE-CUT JACKETS

    On or before release date (looks like mid-January at the latest) you'll have exceptionally large quantities of both promo albums and jackets. With each copy of the LP that you give to jocks, make sure to include a copy of the Tabloid. You'll have enough promo to allow you to set up contests with your jocks with the album as prizes.

    We've sent you the largest quantity of die-cut Jackets in history. Get them displayed ... everywhere!

    BEATLE MOTION DISPLAY

    Along about the first week in February, you'll receive bulks on an extremely exciting motion display. Sorry it will take us so long, but you'll agree it was worth the wait when you see it. About mid-January, you can begin telling your accounts about the display and arranging for windows.

    That about does it. Please get this message to your salesmen and please follow the directions included in this memo. If you have any questions, contact George Gerken immediately.

    Regards

    Paul Russell
    National Album Merchandising Manager


    Distribution: Bulk to RM's for redistribution to BSM's, single copies to: Setzer, Massick, Manning, Caravena, Heldt, Amols, Callison, Karshner

    cc: Messrs: (Gortikov, Strohman, Tallant, Gerken, Goyak, Martin, Meggs, O'Neill, Samela, Davidson




    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Copies of the original two-page memo. Click on either to enlarge.



    [​IMG]


    "Meet The Beatles" Motion Display. Made of cardboard and powered by a battery operated motor, all of the Beatles' heads move back and forth. This 31" x 26" window display was designed for, and delivered to record stores in February, 1964. Very few copies survived Beatlemania, making it one of the rarest of all Beatles memorabilia/promotional items.

    ...

    Does any of the above even remotely sound "more or less organic" to anyone? Anywhere?

    I'm not suggesting The Beatles wouldn't have hit big without it. But "organic" evolution it was not, not by any stretch of the imagination. Capitol Records went all out like never before, as the historical record clearly and unambiguously shows. There is simply nothing organic about any of the above. Nothing. Capitol pushed The Beatles in a way that I don't believe has ever been repeated since. I cannot think of any campaign like it, in any case.
     
  10. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Thank you for actually responding to the things I wrote, rather than simply disagreeing with them. I appreciate a good discussion. I agree with what you say above, with one correction... based on the article we're discussing, the song was getting advance airplay in more than just those three cities by the time Capitol released the single on the 26th ("James, meanwhile, kept circulating tapes of the song to more and more DJs in other cities, with every station getting the same unprecedented reaction"). So the single was spreading across the country prior to release. Capitol most definitely did an effective job at manufacturing and distributing the single quickly, so that they could take advantage of the demand created by this radio play and word of mouth. The point that should be emphasized though is that the song would have become a hit regardless of what Capitol did. Maybe not as big of a hit, or was rapid of a hit, but a hit nonetheless. Once they were on board with releasing the single, they did their job effectively, but they didn't make the song a hit.

    True. The one thing I would disagree with above is the implication that the way things played out was strategy on Capitol's part. They initially tried to stop the spread of the single rather than letting it happen. It was only once they realized they couldn't control what was happening that they decided to get out of the way and let it happen.
     
  11. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA

    Yes - 'Organically' between the release of the single in Britain (29, November, 1963), until the point, three days prior to the US release (Dec. 23; released Dec 26th), where Capitol went into overdrive. Yes, that's the period where the excitement for the single, and the Beatles in the US, grew organically (more or less) through the magic of radio, television, and word of mouth. Capitol threw in some steroids towards the end, which your post covers.

    But you're not understanding which span of time the organic growth of the single took place during; hint, it was before Capitol decided to step in and take control and do some actual promotion. (Many of the above posts for the last few pages allude to this.)

    And you left this pertinent part out of what you quoted of mine, when I wrote: 'The breaking of the single did not happen in the most conventional manner, granted, but Capitol went into overdrive once there was some genuine interest generated.'

    So again, in case you skip it a second time (not a second time!): 'Capitol went into overdrive once there was some genuine interest generated.' #905

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  12. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    If you look at my post #909, you'll see it was less "get out of the way and let it happen" than pull a fast, complete U-turn and get behind The Beatles with all guns blazing.
     
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  13. bvb1123

    bvb1123 Rock and Roll Martian

    Location:
    Cincinnati Ohio
    You've all convinced me. Despite owning The US Albums. I found the capitol vols 1 & 2 together on eBay for $40. Should I buy them or are they most likely pirated?
     
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  14. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    I wouldn't say they got out of the way, more so they took responsibility and inserted themselves into the arena, finally. Not to be confused with credit-taking, either. They realized that they were the foster parent to this growing phenomenon, as far as official product went, and it was more than apparent that needed to apply their business strengths to the task and charge at hand.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  15. ZippyPippy

    ZippyPippy Forum Resident

    Capitol records threatened me til I told my big brother EMI. Then they laid off as long as I promised to say nice stuff about Beatles VI. I'd usually mumble something positive about Bad Boy, and they'd leave me alone.


    The law of entropy is strong when the fabs are discussed in these environs.
     
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  16. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    It applies to the comments on the commentations as well, as we all know. (You're just as guilty as the rest of us!)
     
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  17. ZippyPippy

    ZippyPippy Forum Resident

    MOI???

     
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  18. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    It's a matter of balance. If U.K. Beatles proponents appear to go out of their way to put down Capitol, etc...and speak in extreme ways...refusing to admit that there are any positive attributes of Capitol Records and the Beatles...then an opposing view has to be put forth. To balance things out. And sure, I can get somewhat extreme, but only to balance out the loud minority extreme and strident voices on the other side of the spectrum.

    Some U.K. proponents clearly search out Capitol threads. "No, this cannot stand. Capitol must be dismissed, degraded, and stamped out. A blasphemy! Sacrilegious, what Capitol did! Inferior! Not what was intended! Beatles Capitol Albums need to be exterminated or at least phased out! Or roundly criticized. Over and over again."

    I don't search out Kiss threads or Rolling Stones threads so I can continually and constantly put down these bands who I am not at all a big fan of. Yes, every now and then I'll criticize the Stones. But I don't seek such threads out. But some U.K. proponents (who may be...bigger fans of the U.K. part of it than the Beatles part of it?) are particularly active when the see the name Capitol. They smell red meat and can't even help themselves. It's become an obsession with them, which creates a determination on my part to present the other side. And to counter these historical revisionists...

    It's a matter of balance. The U.S. albums didn't help things, either. Trying to recreate the American albums with U.K. re-mastered songs. Quite the farce. Who did they think they were fooling? What a sham. Pathetic and shows how much Capitol Records bothers them. To have to try to recreate the American albums with a con job.
     
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  19. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    The great fear is that it's 'those mongrel US albums' that really were actually 'important' as held in the hands of the millions of people who bought them, listened to almost religiously, and were in that sense an important work unto themselves - culturally, historically, demographically, and even artistically (they contained Beatles songs made the way the Beatles wanted) - despite not being sanctioned by the Beatles half the time. Fun was had in an unapproved form. As if the folks in the colonies cared what form the album 'should have' taken compared to the enjoyable, great albums they got; it simply was not the American way. And the ones that didn't like the albums (or did, actually), of course, eventually burned them.

    Americans had this experience. Others are, understandably, jealous of the affection some people have for these albums. It's unconscious, but it's there.

    As far as the albums unto themselves, stripped of historical time-place, they're still good and great Beatles albums. They deliver the message well enough (sometimes too well).

    Don't like them? Don't listen to them. No one is forcing you to accept the Capitol albums. Apple tried to wipe them out, and then brought them back halfway and people are threatened by two unsung box sets of old music? It's what those two Capitol box sets represent that has certain people in an uproar, and they don't quite know why. They just know it makes them act intolerant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  20. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    You're going to have to explain that one. How is it that someone is jealous of something that they don't like, when they have something they do? On its face it seems a ridiculous assertion.
     
  21. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Senior Member

    So, anyone want to speculate on what the American Beatles albums would have been like if they had ended up on, say, Liberty or Imperial, or maybe Epic?
     
  22. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Very well said.
     
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  23. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    I've never seen a group of people so angry and intolerant because someone likes an album.

    Well, besides these people:

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ca
    They don't. I don't associate them with an era.
     
  25. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    I don't believe that. You look like you have sense of history.
     
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