Of course, there's a limit to what you can conclude from these numbers. Certainly not all of the 4.2 million people who bought the Capitol Rubber Soul still prefer it now. I can say that with certainty because I am one of those 4.2 million, and I most definitely don't prefer it to the UK version. I suspect there are many others like me, who bought the US version because it was what was available, and now prefer the UK version. Also, the fact that not all of those 4.2 million people later bought the 1987 CD doesn't mean that they were rejecting the UK version and indicating their preference for the Capitol version. Some of the 4.2 million probably had died by 1987. Some of them probably preferred to stick with vinyl. And some probably were no longer into listening to the Beatles. I can tell you I chose not to buy the 1987 CD because I was aware it had a remix, and then had a chance to hear the remix and didn't like it. So I chose to stick with my vinyl copy of the Parlophone album as my preferred way to listen. And since I bought that LP used, my purchase of it is not reflected in any of the sales figures above.
I'd wonder how many are still alive. Sure, why not? We don't know how many of them took a look at the UK track listing and said, 'No, thanks'. It's almost unknowable; all we know is that it hasn't sold as well to the US consumer, over a longer span of availability, for whatever reason. You bought one of the 4.2 million copies that had already sold.
The only 2 US albums that I have a so-called fondness for are Something New and Yesterday & Today. When I do listen to them on vinyl, I’ll pull out the German pressing of Something New, which uses better sounding tapes, for the most part. As far as Y&T is concerned, I listen to the C1 stereo pressing (cut by Wally) which is the best mastering of the lot. You can keep the rest.
Funny, I'd always thought I'm A Loser from Beatles For Sale (11/64) and included on Beatles '65 (12/64) heralded The Beatles embrace of Bob Dylan. To me, anyway, I've Just Seen A Face never reminded me in any way of either Bob Dylan or The Byrds. Sounded more like a Beatles take on bluegrass or something. Far more melodic than anything Dylan at the time, and The Byrds hadn't yet released an all acoustic tune at that point.
Often labels prepared cutting masters, tapes that were already EQ'ed for LP. It is possible such tapes are what Jensen was using. We don't know since he doesn't specifically say, but that was done frequently. If not, he certainly he would be aware and would probably have access to EQ notes from the cutting engineer. It seems to me he's saying he decided not to faithfully reproduce the original LP sound, since he didn't think it sounded good. Do you think Jensen's work sounds like the original LPs? I don't have mind anymore, but his work certainly doesn't sound like my bootlegs of the Capitol reel-to-reel tapes. Jensen's work is much brighter and more aggressive sounding.
The guitar does a little 'answer is blowing in the wind' quote at the very end of the song. Other than that, not much folk rock, just folk.
The cutting engineer always tweaked the EQ - that was part of their job - it had to be tweaked; but they were the only one who knew what someone else might have specifically wanted (if there was an understanding) going into the next step and how to get it at that step; it was part of the science of that particular step; and who knows what personal preferences those cutting engineers threw in in their own right. From Jensen's quote he's just talking about the tapes themselves, with no consideration towards an archaic final-vinyl EQ step. (There may be some other article where he might talk about the difference between mastering for digital and for vinyl, but it's not in that quote that I see.) I haven't compared the Capitol CDs to the vinyl. But I like how they sound.
The most obvious reason would likely be that the Beatles as a whole were not as popular from 1987-present as they were in the 60s. 3 million of those 4.2 million sales occurred in the first five years after the album's release. After that, sales leveled off and gradually declined, as one would expect with an album/band that were older. I don't think there's any compelling reason to believe Rubber Soul would have sold better over the past 30 years in the US if it had contained the US version. No, I failed to make myself clear. I bought the Capitol Rubber Soul new in 1979. So I am one of the 4.2 million. Then in 1986 or 87 I bought a used import copy of the Parlophone Rubber Soul, which is not reflected in those sales figures.
So did Ted Jensen, obviously. The point I was making is just that it appears his goal was to make them sound good, not to be faithful to the sound on the tapes or to replicate how the LPs sounded.
Trolling through Ted Jensen's old posts, here's one where he discusses whether he tried to be faithful to the sound of the old records: Q: The actual Capitol albums themselves are kind of all over the map in terms of quality depending on what pressings you have. Prior to working on this set, did you audition any of the old US albums to see if there was a certain sound from the LPs that you wanted to maybe try and capture on the CDs? Jensen: I didn't have an actual pressing to check but Capitol sent a CD transfer they had done of an early pressing they had. It was pretty clean, but didn't sound great and didn't have much bearing on the end result. And here's one where he talks about the poor sound on some of the tapes: I agree except that I thought the better tracks on Meet the Beatles sounded better than the ones on the 2nd Album. Also, I thought the worst of the bunch was the mono 2nd Album. I was actually able to set a moderately narrow Q at 12K and crank on 10 dB with almost no change! I think there was something physically wrong with that tape although there was nothing outwardly apparent.
Sgt. Pepper was a big enough deal when it came out on CD, though - selling 4 million since 1987 (it and DSOTM were considered the must-haves when CDs first came out). And the White Album (3.5 million), and Abbey Road (almost 4 million). The Red 2.7 million; and the Blue, 3.3 million, CDs - for a 6 million combined - seemed to be the way that Americans ultimately wanted to go with Beatles CD releases. Some of those people waited until those came out, by which time they had also bought CD players (not everyone had one in 1987). Rubber Soul might have been a bigger deal also, in 1987-, if the American version had been available.
Apologies if this has addressed already, but I'll address this in my own (long-winded) way. I don't have time right now to both read through the 8 pages that have popped up here in the last 24 hours, and also write a detailed response. Here is what Spizer says in his introduction to Book 1 of the 2-book volume (quoting this exactly as written): "Much of the information regarding the Beatles appearances in concert and in the studio comes from Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles Live!, The Beatles Recording Sessions and The Complete Beatles Chronicle. Mark's well-researched books set the standard for Beatles book and belong in every Beatles library. Mark assisted me with my research on matters not covered in his books. Additional details about the recording of the songs came from Walter Everett's The Beatles As Musicians and George Martin's All You Need Is Ears and With a Little Help From My Friends." As Spizer's essays themselves do not provide citations for every sentence, and I only own The Beatles Recording Sessions, I am not able to nail it down (meaning what Martin did differently for the mixes prior to them being sent to America, or what was done in the US after they got there) any more than that. With respect to I Feel Fine and She's a Woman, Spizer mentions that George Martin produced separate mono mixes for England and America for these two songs. It is mentioned that Martin gave the tracks additional reverb prior to sending them to America, but no source is given for this. For the British single, Remix 3 from October 21, 1964 is used for I Feel Fine, and Remix 1 from October 12 for She's a Woman. The Capitol single uses Remix 4 from October 21 for I Feel Fine, and Remix 2 from the same date for She's a Woman. This remix information agrees with what's in The Beatles Recording Sessions for these dates. Later on in this section, as I implied in my earlier post, it is said that Capitol added additional reverb to these songs, it was adding a second layer of reverb. As discussed above, the source for this isn't expressly mentioned --- and I am not in a position to research this further right now. Ask me in about 12 years when I am retired.
Or it might have been a bigger deal if the original mix of the UK version had been available. I can tell you it would have sold at least one more copy than it did.
But your number of 6 mil. copies sold to this date is wrong according to this page. It says 8,3 mil. That makes 1965-1986 and 1987-present sales close to each other. Ondra
Ondra - Your reference page says 8,275,000 and is based on a 'Commensurate Sales to Popularity Concept (CSPC)'. I don't know how accurate the CSPC concept - a randomly conjured up SPS system - would be as applied to UK Rubber Soul CD sales in the US, but we'll pretend they're real in this post. If correct in any way, that brings the new tally to: US Rubber Soul (Dec.,1965 - 1986; 20 years): 4,240,827 UK Rubber Soul (April, 1987-2018; 30 years): 4,034,173 (2,275,000 of which were conjured up using the Commensurate Sales to Popularity Concept (CSPC)) The US version is still ahead, based on those updated numbers (and having capped US Rubber Soul sales at 1986, even knowing that vinyl copies were sold thereafter into the late 90s). Pretty remarkable, even vs. the 'Commensurate Sales to Popularity Concept' system. Maybe some day the numbers for the latest mock-US version (from the US Albums project) will be available.
PS. Some of those CSPC Rubber Soul-equivalent 'sales' should be awarded to the US Rubber Soul, and songs like 'I've Just Seen A Face' and 'It's Only Love' counted towards its total. Popular songs like 'Michelle', 'Girl', and 'In My Life', etc. can be attributable to either album depending on who bought the song and why. I wonder how the guy who conjured up the 'CSPC' system would consciously deal with the demographical and historic aspects of the one-title/two-product Rubber Soul. As well, we don't even know what source data the guy (MDJ) is using for his CSPC system. I believe he counts Spotify and Youtube streams as sales - and he may be counting single-song streams of certain album songs as attributable to an equivalent of a sale of an album somehow - not sure which formula he's using for that.
Spot on. I always saw the Help! LP tracks I’ve Just Seen A Face and Tell Me What You See as simplistic, country/skiffle-inspired songs. Certainly not folk-rock.
So, Ondra, I don't believe we can count your 'CSPC' numbers towards the sale of 'actual' Rubber Soul albums (whether they be virtual US or UK ones). Even if we did, conceptually, those would still have to be divvied up among the two albums somehow, US and UK. That said, until real album sales increase or are brought to light, the US/UK ratio still stands at roughly 4 : 1.5 in favor of the US version, even at this late date. That's remarkable. Maybe the 'Commensurate Sales to Popularity Concept' guy will find a way to turn SHF page views into equivalent album sales for specific threads. With 38,393 views for this thread - we can roughly apply that number to the sales of the Capitol sets and the US Albums (as a set, or individually) virtually any way we want.
