The Beatles Collection - cleaning - transfer to CD-R

Ok, so I'm crossing my fingers that the BC-13 box I have on the way is in as good of shape as the seller indicated, which was mint and unplayed. Of course, I'll play them once first but then, assuming things are a-okay, I was planning to do as follows. Let me know what you think.

1. Clean with Disc Doctor. (Two parts distilled water, one part DD.)
2. Rinse twice.
3. Play once.
4. Rinse again.
5. Carbon-fiber brush. (Like usual.)
6. Record to PC.

3 and 4 were suggested in an old thread to remove any leftovers in the groove and allow the stylus to "seat." Seems reasonable, I suppose. Any thoughts?

Let's see...I don't have a ZeroStat gun or anything along those lines. The turntable/cartridge is set-up properly and the stylus is fairly new. I'll be using a Shure V15VxMR, Echo Mia soundcard, and CoolEdit 2000...for the curious.

Anything you guys would do differently for the best transfer? (Besides buying new equipment...haha) I don't mind overkill...it's just a "fun" project and it's the Beatles

Thanks for any input.

Matt

 

I am sort of hiatus from doing this exact same project. It is a bit time consuming, but I am happy with the results. I am using Cool Edit Pro 2 with an M-Audio 24/96 soundcard and a Denon DP-60L with Denon cartridge.

If you want to spice it up, break down the tracks from the Rarities LP and tracks from a good copy of the Red or Blue comps or Past Masters and make bonus tracks for each record! I actually got the idea from surfing around on this website:

http://www.geocities.com/~beatleboy1/dbsongs.html

It lays out the singles with the record that came out around that time. Just an interesting idea you may want to look into. I have tried to make tray cards for them and even tried to replicate the "1" comps back cover, but have not had the time to put into it.

 

Re: Re: The Beatles Collection - cleaning - transfer to CD-R

Hmm, that IS a good idea. Glad you brought that up. Thanks for the link.

Denon DP-60L...nice. What do you think of it? Currently, I'm using the DP-47F and I can't complain. No rumble, no wow, no flutter...great sound.

 

Re: Re: Re: The Beatles Collection - cleaning - transfer to CD-R

I don't have much experience with high-end equipment, but I bought it off a good friend that needed to sell off some stuff due to a divorce. I know he doesn't buy crap equipment and I think still regrets selling it to some degree. I think he is thrilled that I am now a certified vinyl addict and use it more than any CD player in the house.

Needless to say, I love this turntable. I have not really compared it to much else, but I would like to experiment with other tables just to hear things like rumble etc. so I know what to listen for. But the sound quality is great and records I had crackle on with my other unit play almost perfect on it.

 

Your cleaning method sounds great. Don't forget to clean your stylus as well. My advice would be as follows: setup, setup, setup!! How is your turntable set up? How was the cartridge alligned? You didn't use a Geodisc, did you? Are the VTA and azimuth adjusted correctly as well as the anti-skate and tracking force? Out of curiousity, what kind of turntable are you using? I would highly recommend that you isolate your turntable very well before you do the recording. I can't tell you how many needle drops I've heard with obvious noise and rumble from poor isolation. If you don't have anything else, just use a sheet of bubble wrap underneath the unit. When you have the turntable isolated and the speakers turned off (monitor with headphones to avoid vibrations), grab a small precision level and make sure the platter is completely even. For the best possible tracking, the record play surface should be as level as possible. If it's not, and it won't be, spend some time placing cardboard shims under the turntable feet where they are needed. I'd also recommend getting a record clamp. Not only will this assist in leveling the record surface if there are any problem areas, it will stablize the record so as to avoid any slipping during playback which would result in subtle speed variations. And finally, if you really want to get fancy, check out the killer turntable I am selling in the classified section (hint, hint).

 

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The only problem I would have with your Denon turntable is that it is direct drive. All of the best high end turntables are belt drive. The reason for this is that instead of having the motor directly underneath the platter, exposing your vinyl playback to excessive vibrations and possible hum (with an unshielded cartridge), it is isolated by a belt. The result is a much more quiet, smooth, and undisrupted presentation. I am speaking generally here. I can't say anything directly(no pun intended) negative about your Denon because I've not heard the unit. Again, if you want a true high end machine, check out the FANTASTIC turntable I am selling in the classified section .

 

In addition to adding singles, you might consider adding cuts from the Anthology CD series. It's it's kinda fun listening to Anthology cuts followed by the final versions. Just a thought.
Chuck

 

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Like I stated previously, I don't have a lot experience with turntables. Upgrading from a crappy Sanyo table with an Audio Technica cartridge that doesn't stay on the correct speed when playing at 45 rpm is a big deal. I am very happy with what I have, but I am open to learning about other tables etc.

I do get light hum when I am not playing a record when I crank up the volume to about 11, but other than that it is unnoticeable. I always chalked it up to the phono inputs on my amp. My friend actually owned a Linn table and some other one I can't recall prior to this table. One to play 33 and one to play 45s. I guess the Linn only played one speed.

 

Re: Re: The Beatles Collection - cleaning - transfer to CD-R

My turntable is a Denon DP-47F. No jokes, it's not a DJ turntable.

Okay, so the cleaning method is a go? As for stylus cleaner...Shure recommended denatured alcohol (yes, denatured) and implied it would not affect the stylus/cantilever bond. I'm still thinking about this one. Any other cleaner worth looking into?

I aligned the cartridge using a DB Systems protractor. (Are there problems with the GeoDisc?) The VTA is not adjustable on the Denon so that's not an option. I used a Shure SFG-2 to set the tracking force at 1g (anti-skating is electronically controlled) and then fine-tuned it from there by ear using familiar material. It sits at 1.1g right now, where I think it sounds best. The platter itself is level. I use Sorbothane feet with shims underneath. The turntable is on a heavy (and I mean heavy) wood desk which sits on a carpeted cement floor.

Alrighty, now I know the Denon is a direct-drive unit and I'm know there are belt-drives that have less rumble. But that being said...all rumble coming off this table is infrasonic, inaudible, and at such low volumes that even when I examine waveforms using Cool Edit it doesn't set off my OCD. Its speed accuracy and stability still amazes me. As for a record clamp, I've thought about one too but I'm not sure if the motor would be able to handle it. Hmm...

Trust me, if I had the $$$ and a larger collection of vinyl I might take you up on your offer to "get fancy."

Matt

 

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Way to go, good deal. I bet he does regret selling it somewhat. I dumped my old Sanyo for this Denon. It was a demo (was never even set-up or plugged in) and I got it for about a third off. It gets a lot of use around here, never had a problem with it, and I'm thrilled with the sound. I'd have to inherit a large collection to justify an upgrade. Boy, I'd love to be forced into that situation.

 

Re: Re: Re: The Beatles Collection - cleaning - transfer to CD-R

Well if I were you, no offense, I probably wouldn't do the transfer until I could obtain a better turntable. The unit you have is simply not up to par in my opinion, in terms of purtiy. I would rather have a $300, well designed, audiophile table than a $600 mass market machine with suspicious tracking geometry. Don't think for a moment that belt drive turntables are not accurate. That is a myth, unless of course the belt is old. In truth, I have seen more problems with the accuracy of direct drive machines than belt drive. Thus said, obviously you have got to work with what you have and perhaps your Denon is better than I would think. You didn't mention the azimuth adjustment, which is very important. You may want to get your hands on a copy of the Hi-Fi News test lp and run some tests to fine tune all of the adjustments. I think I may have an extra copy of this test lp, but if not, you can buy them from Music Direct. As for the stylus cleaning, I would suggest the Disc Doctor's system, but make your own brush. There was an excellent article in Listener a couple years ago on how to do this using a common paint brush, the idea being that you will end up with something that is much more forgiving than the stiff-bristle brush you get from Disc Doctor. You can probably find this article on-line, but if not I could probably get you a copy.

 

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Just do the transfer and enjoy the music! I am sure your points are well taken, but I think at some point, we all need to start enjoying the music instead of worrying about what many would see as incremental improvements in our systems. I certainly could use an upgrade in the amp and CD player department, but I think at some point this nit-picky stuff would drive most people crazy. I think that the knowledge that some flaw (might exist) is enough to convince people that it is there and actually a problem.

 

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Honestly, truthfully, no offense taken. Your opinions are welcome. Having heard plenty of DD turntables myself, your skepticism is understandable. Seriously, if I had my way I'd replace everything from the turntable through to the sound card itself but I have other priorities. Even so, empty grooves on my current test lp are surprisingly silent and clean. So I'll make do with what I currently have. As for tracking geometry, I will set it the best I can. I've never had a problem with the Shure mistracking on any material whatsoever. My best vinyl sounds nearly as good as my DCC CDs, so I'm satisfied for now. I noticed some others praising the Hi-Fi News test lp so I already have a copy of that on the way. A good suggestion.

Thanks. I will look into the Disc Doctor system for stylus cleaning. I will also look for that article or something similar. A stiff-bristle brush just doesn't seem to be the way to go, does it? Yikes.

Matt

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Beatles Collection - cleaning - transfer to CD-R

The stiff bristle brush is perfectly okay as long as you're very careful with it. As a matter of comfort, I feel safer with a soft brush. Let me know when you finish your transfers. I'd love to hear the results. I'm sure they'll turn out just fine.

 

Just curious.
BTW Have anybody tried to use 24/96 soundcard (like Creative Audigy 2) and DVD writer to create DVD-A copies of their LPs.

 

I asked that question a while back, but I don't recall what the response was. Since DVD-Rs are only single layer, you'd only fit half the material on there.

Someone another LP to CDR post said that recording at 24/96 is actually a waste of processing time etc. because you won't get any better results. I did try it at 24/96 and 24/44.1 and really didn't hear much of a difference on playback. Granted, my equipment might not be as good as the person who mentioned it though. Plus, I think downsampling from 96 to 44.1 actually creates some mathematical problem in the conversion process. I guess 88 would work better because it is actually twice 44.1 I am not sure where all this noise goes when it is "shaped", but I didn't seem to hear anything when testing it out.

I usually record at 24 bit (32 bit float) and at 44.1 and do my declicking and editing and then dither it to 16 bit and burn it.

 

I also heard that the sample size is more important than frequency.
Do you know the sample size of DTS CDs ? I know some people convert old
quad LPs like moody blues into DTS CDs. BTW do you know any software package that will allow to burn HDCD. I believe HDCD has 20bit sample.
Should sound a little better than 16.

 

From what I understand, if you record at 24-bit / 44.1k you will have better input headroom. You won't be in as much danger of clipping than at 16-bit. Simply put, the more input the more bits are used. To get better resolution you can use 24 bit and not worry as much about that. Also, if you run digital EQ, compression, etc (which you probably won't), you'll loose resolution in the process. You could go from, say, 16-bit down to 12-bits.

After recording your 24-bit files, you can dither (not truncate) down to 16-bit and retain more resolution than you had by just recording at 16-bit.

 

Unfortunately, I don't. I think it must be 24 bit. I guess when the record it to the computer, the use 4 discrete inputs on a soundcard and I am not sure how they manage to burn it to one CD.

 

Hey that was my 300th post! Cool...

 

Yes you need to have one clock source for all four channels.
Just found a very interesting site on the topic.
http://hometown.aol.com/matrixquad/cdr.htm
The genteleman describes his process how he converts from QUAD LP to DTS.

 

I've been transfering my mfsl box set to cd-r and my one recommendation on your method is to dilute the cleaner even more than you have. Otherwise it will sound like rice krispies. Since your BC-13 records are probably near mint there is no reason to soap them up too much, and disc doctor is so concentrated it only takes a small amount.
I use 1to9 parts and that's plenty for new and mint.

Also, you have got to find a Magical Mystery Tour & Hey Jude.

 

Actually, this still doesn't explain how it triggers all 4 channels to play at once.

 

One of possible solutions is to record the same staff on tree different sound cards.
First card left front channel right front channel
second card left front channel left rear channel
third time card left front channel right rear channel
And use left front to keep them all in sync. Consider it master clock source. To get all channels on the same time scale. Then sync them manually in cool edit pro. And mix using surcode cdpro dts. It sounds like weird solution.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Beatles Collection - cleaning - transfer to CD-R

Except the Rockport System III Sirius which is $75,000 of direct drive turntable heaven!