The Beatles "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" original 1965 stereo mixes?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by AlanDistro, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    It's unclear if he wanted to remix Revolver or not. In his interview with Allan Kozinn, he seems to suggest he *had* remixed Revolver, but of course that wasn't the case. As far as Tomorrow Never Knows, however, the implication was always that the tape loops were mixed live, meaning a remix would be next to impossible, yet they were recorded to one track of the 4-track.

    I thought only chamber 2 existed today, but regardless, it's not the same as it was in the '60s. It was reconstructed for Anthology, but it does not look nor sound the same as it did back then.

    Peter Cobbin remixed Yellow Submarine. IMO I would avoid whatever he used.
     
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  2. john morris

    john morris Active Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    I believe Sir George did a compromise. Instead of hard left and hard right panning of the original 1965 mix (The Motown 1967 single by Chris Clarke, "Love's Gone Bad" has the same Hey-what's-going-on-here hard left & right mix.) he panned everything either halfway left or right. So the mix still has that hard left & right feeling but is only 50 percent panned instead of full out crazy 100 percent all the way. I do a lot of mixing (not DJ mixing, multitrack mixing) and it's all panned 50 percent either way. Some hear volcals in the middle. I believe that is the effect return channel you are hearing that is panned to the center. The echo effect on volcals that is panned in the middle. I think.
     
  3. john morris

    john morris Active Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Reconstructed...I knew it was too good to be true. But still, good old fashioned analog chamber echo. He also used (Peter claims) the Fairchild Limiter and even tape delay. Can't complain about that! Well we could...
     
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  4. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Some of it, yes. Got to get some drums into "Got To Get You Into My Life" at the very least.
     
  5. booker

    booker Active Member

    Location:
    Poland
    Blue Ray of Help! clearly shows that there is nothing wrong with tapes sound quality but I agree that Help! (UK1P, UK Two Box) doesn't sound the best. I think however that the problem might have appeared after the songs were taped and mixed by George and Norman probably at the stage of preparing for cutting the lacquer. As for BFS stereo I always thought this was the worst soundwise out of the first 4 (again UK1P, UK Two Box) albums in particular when you compare it to AHDN.
     
  6. A well respected man

    A well respected man Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Yes, and I think it was the worst decision. I you decide to go out and remix, go all the way and the people who want a proper stereo will be satsified. If you don't want to do that, just let the original mix as it is and you can say you don't want to mess with history. He chose a middle road, and satisfied (almost) no one.
     
  7. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    Good old fashioned echo chamber is no good if if the echo chamber does not sound good anymore. Which, to my ears, the reconstructed echochamber at Abbey Road doesn't.
     
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  8. crispi

    crispi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin
    Good observation. However, I always thought changing the sound of Ringo's cymbals was a conscious decision. A mixing decision, mainly, but maybe they recorded it like that already because that's how they wanted to have it. I do believe it was a trend, or changing tastes? Note how on the mono mixes the cymbals are even more muted than on the stereo mixes. The trend of taming the high frequencies of the drumset carried over into Revolver (again, especially the mono mix), but by this time Ringo's style had changed, so on the subsequent album the drum EQ reverted back to more "normal".
     
  9. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yea, the Help mono mixes are generally dull and lifeless for some reason. Of course we can't compare the mixes between Help and Revolver. Two different engineers, different recording techniques, bouncing... lots of differences. I wonder if the tape heads weren't a bit worn. I bet somewhere we can find out if equipment was changed in early 1965, or if tape was found faulty for some reason. Ron
     
  10. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    I don't think it's anything to do with the recording of the Help album. Newer remixes of that stuff sounds great and full of life. But perhaps the machine they mixed to was showing signs of age.
     
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  11. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Sure, could well be. If I may ask... what remixes? Are you talking DVD or Blu ray? I haven't really listened to those mixes with a discerning ear. Ron
     
  12. Vinylfindco

    Vinylfindco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami
    My thoughts exactly, just give us an AAA stereo vinyl box, original mixes. Or at least AAA stereo vinyl releases of White Album, Abbey Road and Let it Be
     
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  13. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    Latest DVD or actually the latest release of the film on iTunes.
     
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  14. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Thanks! Ron
     
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  15. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I was looking for that very article/interview. Ron
     
  16. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
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  17. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yea, thanks. Someone asked me privately about Allan and I was looking for the article. Much appreciated. Ron

    PS Oh boy, this is certainly one of those 1987/88 era interviews where Sir George goes astray. Interestingly, he does mention Help specifically as being rush-recorded (due to filming constraints) and that the final results show this. He also seems incredulous that stereo albums were released for Please Please Me and With The Beatles concurrently with the mono issues. He says HE didn't do the stereo mixes and no one else he knew did either. Alluding that they were done at a later time, after he left EMI's employ. Just not true as we all know now. HE supervised the stereo mixes and signed his name to the recording sheets. I forgot just how incredulous he was concerning the first two albums. Ron

    GEORGE MARTIN: You have the advantage of me. I was not aware of a stereo album being produced. I thought it had been done after I left in 1965. Certainly I wasn't aware of it at the time. Now, that may seem extraordinary to you, but in 1963 I don't even think I had time to have breakfast. Certainly I didn't do the stereo mixes, and neither did the Beatles. Some geezer at EMI probably looked at this and said, for the minority of stereo people around, we'd better put out a stereo record.
     
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  18. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I guess he didn't look behind him.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Maybe it wasn't McCartney that was replaced in 1966, it was Martin.
     
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  20. Alcoholic

    Alcoholic Active Member

    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Is that necessarily a "fib" rather than a memory lapse? 20 years on I don't expect him to remember that the tape loops were all on one track.
     
  21. john morris

    john morris Active Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Everyone one was so sure they were hearing digital echo but they weren't. I think to some people you just say the word, "remix" and they go insane. If George Martin put the volcals in the middle, rhythm track hard left, guitars and overdubs hard right; and mixed through a EMI REDD 5.7 tube board with no echo people would still complain. Well you and I wouldn't.

    I Agree with you. The digital echo I can live with but not putting the volcals in the middle.....No excuse that I will except for that.
     
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  22. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    Exactly. And i like the Help 86 stereo mix much more than the 65. It's not dull and i don't care what kind of reverb he used as long as it does sound loke something that could have been a 65 reverb. And i think he got really close with whatever he used.
     
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  23. bjr

    bjr Member

    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    The J37s were surely brand new, but maybe the BTRs were due for refurbishing. But there is *something* different about Help! for sure, even on the 87/09 remix. The vocals sound a bit murky and indistinct, as if they were dosed up with low-mid EQ and reverb. Big difference to the laser-like vocals on RS.
     
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  24. The Beatles Rock!

    The Beatles Rock! Active Member

    Location:
    North Texas, USA
    I love the sound on rubber soul
     
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  25. For those who like to do some mastering of their own, there's a relatively simple way to remaster the 1965 Rubber Soul stereo tracks to eliminate the wide separation.

    Using Audacity and a crossfeed plug-n called "Head Fit," one can easily alter the stereo image from 3/9 o'clock to 2/10 o'clock (or more so depending on preference).

    It's amazing how this effects the bass presence and overall eq making the tracks sound less stark and fuller! This is all George Martin needed to do instead of the 1987 re-mix. Indeed, he seemed to do just this for some 1987 tracks - e.g., Norwegian Wood & Girl.

    1987 Norwegian Wood is very close to the 1965 mix using "Head Fit." So is Girl, but do notice some apparent differences with the timbre of the voice/mix.
     

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