The Beatles "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" original 1965 stereo mixes?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by AlanDistro, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. GV1967

    GV1967 Well-Known Member

    Northeastern US
    Perhaps part of the plan was that Apple figured stereo fanatics who loathe the 1987 remixes would be forced to buy the mono set for the '65 mixes.
  2. couchdave

    couchdave Founding member of Mystik Spiral

    Boston, MA, USA
    Maybe, but from the accounts I saw it sounded like the impetus for including the original '65 stereo mixes on the mono set came from the Abbey Road mastering team themselves. At least they were taking credit for it...
    GV1967 likes this.
  3. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Rockford, MI
    So seriously, is the source of the 2012 vinyl RS and HELP! really just the digital files used to make the 1987 CDs? So, essentially a 1987 CD pressed to vinyl? Sorry if I'm ignorant on the topic just trying to understand
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host

    What digital files? No such thing then. That stuff was mixed directly to 1610, long disintegrated. What else is there? Hairbrained idea to use those dreadful mixes in the first place.
  5. couchdave

    couchdave Founding member of Mystik Spiral

    Boston, MA, USA
    My understanding is that the '87 George Martin stereo remixes of Help! and Rubber Soul were made to U-matic digital tape (I'm assuming at CD-quality resolution, more or less) and that those tapes were the basis for the 1987 CDs, the 2009 stereo CD remasters, and the recent vinyl reissues. (As Derek points out, there are EQ differences between the '87 and '09 versions.) But I'll defer to anyone else with better info/knowledge.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
    Shak Cohen likes this.
  6. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Rockford, MI
    Hi Steve,

    Please have patience with me : ) I'm a great admirer of your work and what you do, but have nowhere even in the ballpark or on the same planet the knowledge you have. To be honest, I have no idea what you mean when you say the stuff was mixed to 1610, long disintegrated

    Here are my assumptions

    - In 1987, in order to create the new mix wouldn't they have gone back to the multi track tapes?
    - I'm guessing that after they completed the new remix in analog, they simply digitized it to PCM using 16-bit sampling at 44.1Khz and created the CD

    I'm sure that is a very simplified version of what actually happens. Surely, they have those PCM files right? Those are the files I'm talking about.

    So, when they did the 2012 Rubber soul and Help! vinyl I'm just trying to figure out what specifically was used to create the records.


  7. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Rockford, MI
    In that case, for the 2009 remasters and recent vinyl reissues, surely they didn't just take that digital tape and put in on CD/vinyl right? I mean, they took that digital source, and cleaned it up significantly for the new releases?

    I just want to confirm that the new 2012 vinyl release I have is not just a digital copy, not enhanced in any way from the 1987 version, and pressed to vinyl. Surely, they must have taken great care in remastering from those 1987 remix digital tapes. Yes?

    In any event I absolutely agree and wish that they would have used the 1965 mix.
  8. bubba-ho-tep

    bubba-ho-tep Forum Resident

    Wylie, TX, USA
    I think the records were cut from the 24/44.1 digital files which were transfered from the 1987 16/44.1 digital tape.
    Shak Cohen likes this.
  9. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Rockford, MI
    Thanks Bubba. If that is the case, that would surely explain why to my ears the RS vinyl I have in my new box set basically sounds like a CD. I picked up a early 80s capitol pressing (granted it's the American RS and there are some differences there) and the sound on that blew me away. The 2012 vinyl of it is just kind of OK in comparison.
  10. Mylene

    Mylene Forum Resident

    I think The Beatles (or most likely Lennon) wanted Help mixed like a Gary US Bonds record (murky with little separation between instruments)that Martin didn't like and Rubber Soul's wide mix was ordered by the white coats at EMI so Martin couldn't wait to do a remix.
  11. John DeAngelis

    John DeAngelis Forum Resident

    New York, NY
    It was all the pot they were smoking.
    Shak Cohen and bluemooze like this.
  12. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Rockford, MI
    So, if you are not fortunate to have a pre-1987 UK vinyl copy is the definitive way to hear RS in stereo the 2009 mono box 1965 stereo mix?

    I do wonder if there is a noticeable difference in SQ
  13. Easy-E

    Easy-E Forum Resident

    An addition to your remasters box that may be worth getting is a 1 or 2 EMI box " Gramophone Co.." rimmed RS and Help! to get those 65 stereo mixes

    They are quite easily available most times on ebay or elsewhere and use the same matrices as the original Y&B Parlophones for a fraction of the cost

    Just be certain that they have "Gramophone Co..." rims and you cant go wrong.
  14. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Rockford, MI
  15. Easy-E

    Easy-E Forum Resident

    Yes, exactly right.
    Joey_Corleone likes this.
  16. DrJ

    DrJ Forum Resident

    Davis, CA, USA
    In my opinion, yes. Very true "flat" sounding (in the good sense) transfers of both albums - they sound very much like my UK EMI "one box" stereo pressings of these titles.
    dlokazip likes this.
  17. crossroads69

    crossroads69 Forum Resident

    London Town
    Rubber Soul needs a new stereo remix. We now have the unique 60s mix on a well remastered CD and the 87 mix doesn't really do much to improve on the original's shortcomings.

    Apple needs to go back to the original session multitracks and remix for better sound stage presentation. As long as they don't digitally fudge up things, it could be the essential alternate to the 60s original mixes.

    On a similar note, I would love to see every post RS album remixed tastefully and presented in high resolution :)
  18. walrus

    walrus Forum Resident

    Nashville, TN
    I think this needs to be done for the entire catalog, if people really want Beatles in stereo for some reason.

    Personally I think the mono mixes are largely definitive, other than the novelty of hearing individual elements seperated into L/R channels for individual study.
    nasa09 and Billy Infinity like this.
  19. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Sofia, Bulgaria

    Of course I don't have any exclusive info regarding this, but as far as the '87 CD's of Help! and RS says "ADD", I assume that the remixing was digital, not analog.
  20. crossroads69

    crossroads69 Forum Resident

    London Town
    Like many other stereo fans, I prefer the space and clarity of stereo mixes (could be a byproduct of growing up in the 90s that mono just doesn't feel right as yet). The Beatles music sounds so much better recorded than most of other British 60s acts. The folks at EMI and of course George Martin did a splendid job of capturing the magic on tape.

    It's the stereo mixes that mainly suffer from certain styles or ideas that affected the early days of stereo music production. So it would be completely worthwhile exercise to approach them with a fresh mind and provide improved alternate listening experiences. The originals stay in print so nobody is talking about replacing the holy grail. I hope someone at Apple is thinking on these lines....
  21. JoeRockhead

    JoeRockhead Forum Resident

    New Jersey
    For me, depends on the source. I never say all mono or all stereo across the board as a blanket statement. When it comes to Beatles For Sale and Help, I prefer stereo all the way. Everything else pre White Album, mono
    Galeans likes this.
  22. Easy-E

    Easy-E Forum Resident

    Just get them all - mono and stereo of all of them - its easier that way. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
    vmajewsk, goodiesguy, jmrife and 6 others like this.
  23. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Austin, TX, USA
    I've got "two box" pressings of Rubber Soul and Revolver. I don't own a stereo CD of Revolver because neither the 1987 nor the 2009 CDs sound as good as my LP. After buying the Mono Box, I never listen to my Rubber Soul LP. The original stereo mix on the Mono Box CD sounds that good.
    Larry Geller likes this.
  24. Jim Foy

    Jim Foy Forum Resident

    That was exactly what I did!
    Any you know what?
    I am SO happy I did: There are so many exciting variations in the different mixes that I don't think I'll ever grow tired of listening top the Fabs.
    monkspider, bluemooze and Easy-E like this.
  25. action pact

    action pact ^^ Sandy Warner, "The Exotica Girl"

    Gawd, no. What new magic do you expect from a remix from a 4-track recording?
    hutlock likes this.

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