The Beatles "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" original 1965 stereo mixes?

I see, thanks!

This is so simple, I don't see a need for a plugin.

 

Thanks for the advice. I ended up just converting the songs to mono because some of the voices/instruments are in the far right/left and only leaving the gain at zero was acceptable to me. This does degrade the quality of the song but I can't listen to songs with uneven channels with headphones. It makes my head hurt.

 

For those that want to try the "head-fit" plugin - here's the link - blogohl: Head-fit

Try using the defaults. Best results for me was applying it a couple of times to move from 9/3 to 10/2, but play around with it as you see fit!

However, on one track - "You Won't See Me" - applied it only once. For some reason it sounded better to me!

 

I don't understand if you had paid an extra dollar for a stereo LP why you would even dare play it on a mono turntable that could cause damage.

I just don't accept this theory that George Martin was making it mono compatible on purpose by mixing the stereo with nothing in the middle.

Just because we have been told something for 50 years (as an excuse) does not make it true.

I'm sorry but George Martin is not the most honest story teller. He lied about not producing the stereo masters of PPM and WTB until Allen Kozin found opposite evidence. He lied about WHY the Beatles got their demo session and/or contract. He put forth the false notion that he immediately saw great potential and was eager to record them when the opposite was true.

 

I agree. And if that indeed was an ethic they adapted at abbey road late 65 then they veered from that few months later.

 

Were any other late 65 albums done at emi mixed this way? Would be even more strange if Beatles was the only artist that got the "hole in the middle treatment" in 65.

 

I still believe they mixed "Rubber Soul" the way they did was petty retribution for Capitol taking their stereo master of the "Help!" songs and folding those down to make their own mono mixes. The subsequent mono fold-downs made the music almost disappear and the vocals way over-mixed and but labeled as "Produced by George Martin". Surely they guys in England were aware of the previous "Dexterization" of the 1963 songs. We know Capitol had a problem with what George Martin sent them and thought those masters inferior to Capitol standards. In concert John was knocking the US albums. "Beatles 6? I haven't got it! "

I could see Martin saying by late 1965 "OK Capitol, you're messing with our work... we'll give you something to play with... we'll completely separate the music and vocals this time and you can make your own mono mixes how you like."

There's a whole story here that someone should research and write a book. I'd love to see any internal EMI/Capitol documents that went back and forth over sound quality and mixing.

The "mono compatible" stuff seems like a revisionist cover story to me.

 

I find it pretty hard to believe Martin would mix anything a certain way simply to spite Capitol.

Even if that was the case, though, the reasoning still would have been mono compatibility.

 

Would you play a stereo LP on a Victrola?

 

Who is suggesting that?

 

Totally agree with you.

Why would George Martin sabotage a Beatles album to get back at Capitol Records? It makes no sense.

Some of The Hollies stereo mixes from the same period as Rubber Soul have the same type of placement. As you know, they recorded at Abbey Road and their producer was Ron Richards.

 

With regards to Run For Your Life.

A track layout like this makes sense:

Track 1: Acoustic Guitar/Drums/Electric Guitar/Tambourine
Track 2: Bass
Track 3: Lead & Backing Vocals
Track 4: Lead & Backing Vocals (Chorus) & Lead Guitars

Tracks 1 and 2 are panned left in the stereo mix, Track 3 is panned right, and Track 4 switches between left (during the choruses, as well as intro) and right (all times lead guitar is present, apart from the intro.

The bootlegged early mix of the song feature John's original vocal (which can be faintly heard on the Rockband bass), as well as the lead guitars, but none of the final vocals. The most likely explanation is that the 2nd set of vocals for chorus were punched onto the lead guitar track. Hwever, there is one additional mystery. On some of the Rockband isolations, digital vocal artifacts can be heard on the lead guitar track, during the fade w/ John's "na na nahs." This would indicate that the track with lead guitars, also contains vocals occurring at the same time of the guitars, which rules out the punch in theory.

Still, it is unlikely that the song featured an undocumented reduction mix.

There are few other mysteries.
I don't own the 2009 stereo remaster of the 87 remix of Rubber Soul, but from what others have posted it says that for Michelle, the reduction mix combined the two backing vocals tracks into one and bass/further acoustic guitar was overdubbed on the newly freed track.

Two problems with this:
1. They (or what was reported early in the thread) does not mention the lead guitar solo. This is probably just an oversight.
2. The bass and acoustic guitar overdub are panned separately on the 1987 remix (IIRC, the acoustic guitar/backing vocals are panned further left than the bass/solo guitar).

The most likely explanation is that the acoustic guitar overdub was punched in onto the combined backing vocals track, or was recorded prior to the reduction mix (on one of the backing vocal tracks).

 

Good guess sir, you are probably right. In regards to using Rock Band isolated tracks to figure out the track layout caution is required. For the game they needed every instrument to be seperated (which we both know). And the four original tracks weren't enough. They used sophisticated digital Eq, phase tricks and some audio software that the FIB uses.

Your analysis was spot on and was flawless. Mine was just a guess.

 

I was just listening to both the 65 stereo versions with headphones from the 09 mono box.
Are these remastered as well?
The RS sounds dull.
It's clear to me that RS also has some strong separation between vocals and instruments.
No worse than the stereo PPM and WTB which are part of the 2009 official issues, but I can see why George Martin wanted to remix it.
As for the 65 stereo Help it sounds fine to me.
I don't think it needed messed with.
Maybe GM just figured if he was messing with one he'd mess with both.

 

I would have preferred GM had "messed" with Revolver instead of Help!, which didn't really need a remix. The '87 remix did help Rubber Soul, though. My biggest issue with the '87 remixes are the dollops of wholly unnatural sounding reverb they added to some of the songs..."Dizzy Miss Lizzie" ends up sounding like a Plastic Ono Band outtake!

 

Yes, remastered/"restored".

The Canadian CDs with the original mixes have a bit more high end, which I prefer.

 

In for penny in for a pound.

 

I've Just Seen a Face, to me, always had a strange/quasi "three channel" effect to it (talking: the Capitol RS)...the way it pans toward the center during the "Falling, yes I am falling..." line; then, the bulk of the vocal goes to the right during the verses.

 

Not sure what you mean. The lead vocal is centered throughout the song. The harmony vocal in the chorus is right.

 

I know it's been said a million times that the original 65 stereo mixes should have been on the 09 remastered stereo box in place of the 87 remixes and I agree.
To me if you're going straight stereo for the set that will be the new official box and individual releases, and you're including the hard panned PPM and WTB already, then it only follows to use the original stereo versions of Help and Help too.

 

Yep. A bizarre choice to remix those two in the '80s and a bizarre choice to use the remixes again in 2009, only to put the originals on the mono set. If they were good enough to release in the mono set, they were good enough to release in the stereo set.

 

There is a lot that they should and shouldn't have done in 2009 (and beyond).

 

The '87 Help! and Rubber Soul remixes should have been permanently retired before 2009. No reason for fans to put up with them ever again. There was no beneficial reason to do them in the first place.

 

Except Help sounding much better than the dull lifeless muddy unpunchy weak rhythm tracks the 65 stereo and monos suffered from (with the exception being the 65 mono of Ticket To Ride).

 

Eh.