The Beatles "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" original 1965 stereo mixes?

Is Sir George Martin dead

 

I hear a very loud and very obvious pop in the Disque American version of 'Run For Your Life', I don't hear it on the Mono Remasters !!

 

'Tis on the master tape for both mono and stereo versions.

Removed for the 2009 release on the mono CDs.


The "pop" is also present on both mono and stereo versions of RUN FOR YOUR LIFE available on the RUBBER SOUL CD as part of the CAPITOL BOX VOL 2.

 

No.

 

I'm fairly new to this forum but seem to recall reading the the Lewisohn Recording Sessions book that for Help the group tried a new technique of wiping tape over and over to capture songs in "1" take. This may explain the sound degredation between Help and BFS. I also remember reading that when George Martin went to remix Help and RS in '86 Abbey Road studio no longer had an analog echo chamber, just a digital one. Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

 

No. And hasn't been for some time.

 

No fair, you can't just say something like that without a hint of what you would like done differently.

 

no he's alive and well

 

For some reason, this started me wondering about Abe Vigoda again: http://www.abevigoda.com/
Ah, all is good.

 

Agreed.

Those Feb stereo mixes are the bad ones, overall. ("Ticket To Ride" doesn't bother me too much.) The mono mixes of those particular songs are superior. The Feb stereo mixes have more reverb on them than is typical for Beatle mixes, and it makes everything feel distant and murky. It's especially lethal on the Paul and George songs. "I Need You" feels like it has gaping holes in the arrangement....or, the stereo mix bring out the existing holes much worse.

Both the performances and their mixes sound rushed.

 

Are you aware of any other "fixes" done to Rubber Soul? I've never heard the original vinyl.

 

I always thought a big part of it was the way the two albums were recorded. Beatles For Sale was mostly live, with "sweetening" as appropriate (double-tracked vocals, added percussion, etc). On the other hand, Help! was the start of a more piecemeal approach, where vocals usually weren't cut live.

I do wonder if the introduction of the Studer J37 had anything to do with it, Beatles For Sale having been recorded on the Telefunken machines. Mainly, though, I do think the biggest difference is just the way they were recorded, "mostly live" vs "studio creation".

As far as I know, the 4-tracks were transferred to digital multitrack for mixing, and the stereo mixes were also placed on the digital multi for reference purposes. Yes:

RC: "Help!", "Rubber Soul" and "Revolver" were the next three CDs to be issued, all stereo, but "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" were remixed. Why was that?
MJ: I prepared digital stereo master tapes for CD production from the original stereo tapes for those albums. George Martin came in to listen to the results, and with "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" he though the quality of the CDs would be improved if we went back to the 4-track tapes and remixed. So I transferred the original 4-track tape onto a digital multi-track machine, and along I put the original stereo mix, so George had a reference of what he had done originally. The remixes were then done from these digital tapes.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/interview-with-mike-jarrett-about-beatles-cds.6204/

There may have been some internal bouncing, but as far as I can recall, Michelle was the only track on Rubber Soul bounced from 4-track to 4-track. The title track on Help! of course was as well.

As has been pointed out, "louder" doesn't necessarily mean "less dynamic". Looking at Drive My Car now, the Canadian CD peaks at -1.5dB. Which means it can be 1.5dB louder with no change in dynamics. It could be even louder while only affecting a handful of peaks.

I don't consider the Canadian CDs to be the end-all/be-all, but they don't have the tinkering that's on the 2009 CDs, and I find the 2009 CDs a bit dull. For what it's worth, I find that to be the case for the mono Rubber Soul as well; I've got another version that I find sounds a bit nicer and more open on top.

As above, louder does not necessarily mean less dynamic.

Where are the pops you speak of?

"corporate puke"? What?

The Canadian CDs *are* likely flat transfers, but the LPs definitely aren't. For starters, the earlier pressings had significant summing of the lower frequencies to mono.

I disagree. I do prefer the Canadian CDs.

 

I have both of the Disque Americ CDs now and am warming to them so now maybe I do prefer them to the 2009 box.

 

Yes, I agree, it sounds like that on my '09 Mono CD. Was it like that on the original LP?

 

but, HIS HEARING is 90!

 

Abe had one hell of a sense of humor to laugh off that one.............

 

Having compared the '87 mix, the '09 mono and stereo mixes and the original mono and stereo LPs (phew!), I find it hard to distinguish the openings.

 

Thanks! You've set my mind at ease. I posted the above query a few times and never got an answer so I was beginning to think my CD was faulty!

I don't know if it's on the original stereo vinyl as I never owned it - only the mono.

I have five versions of "Rubber Soul" (the original mono LP, the 1987 CD, the 2009 CD, the 2009 mono CD and the 1965 remix on that same CD) and I hear it only on the last-mentioned.

 

You just posted this while I was sending the above and now I'm as wise as ever!
Although you don't mention the stereo mix which is included as a bonus on the mono "Rubber Soul" CD.

Apologies, but I'll have to ask again: Does anyone else notice a (slight) clipping effect on the opening of "Norwegian Wood" on the 1965 Stereo mix of "Rubber Soul" which is included in the 2009 mono cd box?
(And I'm not shouting. That's capital letters. )

Anyone besides me and Alex?

 

No, I did that one too!
I must confess though that when the '87 CDs came out I was not aware that Help! and Rubber Soul were remixed until I read it on the forums. Very easy to hear now though.
But I am still hard-pressed to hear any differences in the openings.

 

Mmmm. Strange. I'm not really that good at picking up small details but this one jumps out at me. Well, at least one other person has noticed it so maybe it's not entirely in my mind. Thanks for the trouble.

 

First, I have no idea why he even touched Help. As for Rubber Soul it really NEEDS a remix--and still does, but what GM seemingly did is simply added digital reverb which panned to the left, giving the impression the vocal are more centered,,hmm hardly. They are really still pretty much hard right. The work done on Yellow Submarine Songtrack shows how it can be done, to finally center lead vocals that were previously mastered hard right.

 

Well I think I have finally heard this clipped opening comparing the 2009 stereo mix with the '87 Canadian Disque Amerique CD (that has the original stereo mix).

 

Yes and made the standard, and have the first stereo CD mixes be scrapped instead, let those become collector's items. The original mixes were vastly superior.

 

Ah! Hope at last!
Only a fraction of a second seems to be missing at the start of the song ("Norwgian Wood") and it sounds more like a bad CD access point than anything else.