The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's 50th Anniversary (Content, Sound Quality & Discussion Thread Only!)

Well, if Paul doesn't do rubber stamp approvals, and he approved the way Memory Almost Full sounded and was processed soundwise, then he isn't an audiophile. But we already knew that. He may be discriminating about sonics in some ways, but he doesn't have the same set of values many of us on this forum do - at least they don't seem to be a prominent consideration among those things he does care about.

 

I haven't read the thread, but has anyone noticed the bass is way too loud on the cd version? I bet I'm the first to mention it...

 

Why do you keep insisting on the same argument when I have already repeated multiple times it's not what I'm saying? Here we go once more: No, I don't think he is personally involved in the Beatles' releases' mixes, he doesn't "insist" on applying NR or whatever. But he doesn't just approve "what he is told" either, as you say. He many not have the idea to use NR on LIB naked, but it certainly didn't bother him at all. If it did, he would have insisted on correcting it.

Once more: just read what Giles says. He doesn't like everything, and he is constructive, so he gives ideas once he listens to the thing.

It's absurd because you are over-simplifying it to make it absurd. It's not that he says "NO" and the project collapses. It's that, before the project is ready to go, he has to approve. And sometimes he says "I like that, but I don't like this, maybe we could do it like this", and they change whatever he says. It's not a big deal, really.

Well, I'm quite convinced that he approved it because he likes it. That's how Paul McCartney is, and suggesting he could accept some product done with his music and legacy that he secretly doesn't like is very disrespectful, in my opinion.
You don't have to agree with him, and that's OK, no need to make him appear as someone without criteria.

 

Thanks, this is new to me, and quite informative.

 

Ok, after reading Frank's post and what you posted from Giles Martin, obviously you are right and I was wrong about McCartney's involvement. All I can say is that (if this is really the case) to me his vision about the sound quality of his and Beatles related releases is very inconsistent, which makes his opinion on this subject not very useful.

 

It is smashed to a -0.3 db ceiling. It won't clip, but it flat lines at -0.3 db. My issues are less about that, and more about poor EQ choices. Too much bass, and painful high mids. Some of that can be the result of limiting, though. When you throw a limiter on a waveform, it chops the top off the loudest peaks, and those peaks occur mostly in the highs and lows. That, in turn, exaggerates the mid frequencies. If the mastering engineer didn't use much limiting, Giles must have run the mix to a stereo group track and mixed it down with a limiter on it (Anyone remember Bob Ludwig's comments about McCartney's Memory Almost Full? It was already smashed when he got it).

 

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See my last post. It is possible. VERY possible and it's done all the time with limiting. You set the amount of limiting to be used, and then you set the output gain. You can set that to -0.3 db. That becomes your ceiling and prevents the waveform from hitting the 0.00 db mark which WOULD clip. That stops the clipping, but then the recording is still painfully loud.

 

What are you guys talking about? That's what limiting does.

 

The Beatles were never audiophiles.

 

Neither were 99.9% of their fans originally and probably 95% of their fans today aren't either.

Paul probably likes the fatter bass and more prominent drums on the Pepper remix, and the general public probably likes those things also, if they even notice a difference.

But, I'll bet Paul has been in the game long enough to know what things should sound like, but sometimes he has a different sound agenda than some here would like to hear.

The vast majority of the people buying this don't put every little nuance under a microscope (or check waveforms in this case), they put the CD in their players and enjoy the music and get on with their lives.

 

Yet some of their releases are mastered very well, and some are not. Same for McCartney solo releases. That's why I used the word "inconsistent"

 

Plus, I'm sure that Sir Paul and Ringo both have hearing loss just due to age if not from being around loud music a lot at this point.

 

Except the 2017 Sgt. Pepper is NOT painfully loud. It just isn't. If it sounds THAT loud on your system, something is amiss. It's not like I'm immune to poorly mastered, overly loud music. Takes but one listen to Californication and any number of Rush CDs to name but a few. I respect your opinion, have enjoyed your posts for many, many years, but your comments are just extreme in this case. Is it a BIT louder than necessary? Yes. Is the audio painful or come close to approaching the mess of Memory Almost Full? Not at all. Ron

PS While it may be inconvenient, slight EQ changes can produce very pleasing results. I recommend that some of you try some subtle changes and see if this fits your ear and system better.

 

Please. The 2017 Sgt. Pepper is not smashed to the ceiling and the limiting was used lightly. All involved say so, but some folks here just don't believe the engineers. The waveforms look fine for the most part, a few songs have some flat forms as pointed out. The two biggest offenders, Mr. Kite and A Day In The Life have never sounded great on ANY release. Here they are more punchy, but not dynamic or clearer than before. Ron

 

I'm not saying it was....just that you can easily "smash" somethng without clipping it. Clipping only occurs when limiting is *not* used or the threshold is improperly set.

 

I believe the limiting on the 2017 remix was used lightly. But (to me) the most offending compression was applied during the mixing anyway so it doesn't really matter.
And I believe that the debate on the "smashed to the ceiling" limiting that has emerged is very general now. The point is that limiting can be done without clipping which is something that was considered impossible few posts ago.

Ondra

 

I have always respected your posts and enjoyed them as well. Unfortunately, I do feel that the 2017 Pepper is too loud. I should have clarified what makes it painful to me, though. It's the EQ. The high mids to be exact. That's what is painful for me. Other releases from this year (new music) has been mastered at a lower volume (White Denim for one) than the 2017 Pepper. I just have no idea why it has to be that loud. I don't own Californication, but I've heard it, and I agree that it is TERRIBLY loud. Maybe my posts are more extreme in this case because I really love Sgt Pepper's as an album. The 2017 Pepper doesn't clip (it never hits 0 db) like Memory Almost Full, but MAF had nicer EQ to my ears once I turned it down.

 

As usual, a very measured response from you sir. My issue is that people either don't know the terminology (something I admit to at times) or go to extremes. Limiting CAn be done without clipping, but that still doesn't mean that the mix or the waveforms are "smashed to ANY ceiling" in this case. And it's not my PC or gear. I've gone through the standard stereo remix and the hi-rez remix at home on very good gear and at the studio using high end, audiophile gear. I'm not hearing or seeing what some folks say they see and hear.

Lownote30 is a great guy. A fellow bassist and budding engineer/producer. He should know better. Giles didn't run the stereo mix to a group track through a limiter. He just didn't. And it doesn't sound like he did either. Some added compression, some light limiting... that's it. Ron

 

Exactly. Somethng doesn't have to be a solid brickwall that peaks at -.1 db to be overly loud.

 

There is a large amount of compression added to the remix itself...and it's very cheap sounding. You can hear instruments pumping in and out, and poking through the stereo image. It sounds awful to me. The compression used on the original mixes sounds nothng like that.

 

Instead of turning down Sgt. Pepper 2017, try some subtle, and I mean subtle changes in the eq area that affects you most. You have some very fine gear, so that's not the problem. Could be that your speakers may emphasize the very eq (high mids) more acutely than expected. The only MAF I can play at near normal volume is the UK vinyl... and even that is kinda icky. Too bad, I love the songs. Ron

 

You're probably hearing some of the artifacts of the demixing technology. There isn't so much added compression to cause the the pumping you hear. Ron

 

And not to belabor the point, but I don't see your gear profile listed. It's near-impossible to know if your sincere or just trolling without knowing what you're listening on. Ron

 

It's not a remaster.