The Beatles U.S. Albums box set - your impressions ... (continued)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. Sidewinder43

    Sidewinder43 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pasadena, TX
    According to Dexter, when he first heard IWTHYH, he wasn't told that it was The Beatles. He really liked it and was surprised when told that it was The Beatles. At least, that's his story.
     
  2. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Yeah, I don't think so. It sounds just like The Beatles, can't mistake those voices and the falsetto!
     
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  3. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Yeah, I really wish they'd completed the Capitol CD sets. If they'd put out a 3rd set equal to the 1st 2, I wouldn't have cared what they did with the "US albums" after that! :D
     
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  4. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Like I just said above, if "Capitol V3" had come out, I wouldn't have cared.

    The problem is that "Capitol V3" didn't come out, so "US Albums" became the only place fans could get those "non-issued" albums on CD.

    Which is why it gets bitched about. Yeah, I know there would've been bitching anyway, but I believe the griping would've been much lessened if "Capitol V3" existed.

    And I've not really "bitched" a whole lot anyway - I can't even recall if I've posted in this loooooong thread before today. Probably - and I probably whined! ;) - but I'm not super-mad about "US Albums".

    I do side with the folks who think we should've gotten "accurate" versions of all the Capitol releases, though, and without the existence of "Capitol V3", that left "US Albums" as the only place to do this.

    Thus the bitching! :laugh:
     
  5. All right, this is the closest thing that comes to "debunking" the butcher cover story. However, it still doesn't explain why the picture was chosen for Yesterday and Today, who chose it, and what their motivations were. It could very well have been assigned to a collection of hacked together scraps because it shows hacked up meat and dolls. Lennon's quote about using it for the album sure seems to suggest dissatisfaction with the hacked together nature of it.
     
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  6. A well respected man

    A well respected man Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    I can understand that, but then it all comes down to a few tracks in the stereo Y&T. No big deal, if you consider the original stereo mixes of two UK albums were unavailable until 2009 (and even then they were just extra content in the mono box).
     
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  7. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    The Beatles had selected a photo from the "butcher" session for an ad in Record Mirror three weeks before Y&T (not issued in the UK) so it could even be that it was just 'their latest photo'. But Whittaker's recollection is only about his intent, it still doesn't have any information about why The Beatles chose it for an LP cover only issued by Capitol.
     
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  8. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Personally, I think that if The Early Beatles had been left off of Vol. 2 and they had included Y&T instead, there would be a lot less bitching. Many had Introducing The Beatles back in the day. Those people haven't been put out by having to listen to the Please Please Me CDs. There is no substitute for Y&T.
     
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  9. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    How come no one ever complains about The Beatles Story not being included in the old box sets? Wasn't that a Capitol album too?
     
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  10. Sidewinder43

    Sidewinder43 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pasadena, TX
    Remember that we're talking about a middle aged man with a jazz background. Even when I was a kid, IWTHYH sounded different to me. The instrumentation set it apart for me.
     
  11. owsley

    owsley Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
     
  12. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Seeing as how Liverpool is a city and the United States is an entire country with a massive population, that even in the 60s was almost 200 million, you can't compare the two except by averages.


    I never once said Capitol was the reason the Beatles were big or huge in the states and you didn't include in my quote that Capitol was aiming for casual fans too and not just the crazed ones.
    Every last penny earned or record sold with a unique tracklist or reprocessed sound that's heard in passing or passed on by word of mouth, is the intent of a label.
    We can't put a finger on how many records are sold in those days due to these.
    And I have stated on here that it wasn't just the U.S. who had unique versions.
    I made this point to show that it wasn't just the U.S. who messed with artistic intent.

    Once Capitol embraced the band they were trusted to then make adequate decisions to help secure the continued success, even if just for casual or potential new fans that needed persuading.
    The importance of the Capitol albums doesn't need patriotism or obscure tidbits of info.
    It's 2017 and we're still talking about their uniqueness over 50 years later and their release on cd on multiple box sets.
    They were attempted to left in the dust in 1987 and would have been if they lacked the significance you are insinuating they did.
    Almost 20 years after the original UKs became cds the Capitol's remained relevant enough to create to highly successful boxes and 14 years into the 21st century, nearly 30 years since the 87s and 5 years after the remastered original UKs of both mono and stereo, they still saw fit to release something called the "U.S. albums".
    That's not me being patriotic.
    I didn't add the phrase "U.S." meaning United States of America, to the title.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  13. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    It was.

    It sold over a million copies and made it to number seven on the Billboard album chart.

    It was available on LP for at least twenty years.

    It was part of how Americans experienced The Beatles.
     
  14. Wasn't a studio album.
     
  15. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Mostly because it's unlistenable! :D

    I'm actually really happy to have "Beatles Story" on CD - it's one of the reasons I got the "US Albums" set. Yes, it's awful, but it's history, and I owned it as a kid, so I'm glad to have it - even if I never suffer through it again!
     
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  16. I was very happy to see it released on CD because it was narrated by my friend, Emmy winner Al Wiman, who is probably more famous for this:
     
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  17. Some perspective:

    Based on Slane's breakdown of the mixes (many thanks owed to Slane), the "US Albums Box" has about 242 song tracks (stereo and mono). Of these, 164 (68%) are the same mixes used for the capitol albums released in the 60s (and Hey Jude). So right off the bat 2/3rds of the mixes are historically accurate (also mostly lower-generation sourced). Of the 78 tracks that are different mixes, 36 were originally presented as "folddowns" on the mono release and 19 are duophonic / fake stereo manipulations. Purist complain that substituting these folddowns and fake-stereo tracks with EMI's dedicated mono and true stereo mixes was an abomination and a mistake because the presentation is no longer historically accurate. Others think it was a wise decision to make these substitutions because history be damned, these sound much better (pick a side). So that leaves 23 tracks in the box that do not conform to the Capitol released mixes (and were not originally folddowns and fake stereo). Of these 23, most represent Help and Rubber Soul stereo tracks remixed in the 80s for the original CD releases. These 80s remixed stereo tracks are a major bone of contention for just about every fan and it was a decision that is not easily defended. The US dedicated unique mix omissions that disappoint many of us here are the following (note: the box compliers DID include 19 unique US mixes):

    You Can't Do That (mono)
    Long Tall Sally (stereo)
    I Call Your Name (stereo)
    Kom Gib Mir Deine Hand (stereo)
    I'm Only Sleeping (stereo)
    Doctor Robert (stereo)
    And Your Bird Can Sing (stereo)

    These constitute another mistake or oversight by the box creators that is hard to understand or defend, though how much these omissions matter to you may depend on the individual song mix itself, as some are not very different. The "extremely wet" version of half the songs on The Beatles Second Album (stereo) may also be missed by many who crave historical accuracy -others may not miss the reverb.

    So those people who are happy they substituted folddowns and fake-stereo tracks with their sonically superior EMI counterpart dedicated mixes are likely happy with about 219 (90%) of the selected mixes. the 7 unique mixes that were not included and the Rubber Soul and Help constitute 10% of the material here and consequently it is very easy to understand why many are, overall, very happy with the US Albums box set.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  18. dewey02

    dewey02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Far North
    Just a theory:

    Those wanting Capitol Albums Vol. 3 claim that they have a fondness for and liked listening to the Capitol Albums as they originally heard them, including the alternate versions. And they liked the Dexterization, wet versions, and fake stereo in Volumes 1 and 2. Whether any of us agree or not, this is what some claim to like and enjoy and they are entitled to do so.

    HOWEVER: I guess I've never heard anyone say that they enjoy listening to the "music?" on Beatles Story. :D
     
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  19. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Replacing fold downs with the dedicated mono mixes I would think are less of an issue than the fake stereo being replaced with true stereo.
     
  20. A well respected man

    A well respected man Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    I agree completely. The use of 87 remixes Help!/RS and the missing unique mixes are failures in execution one can't defend, even if one agrees with the box approach.

    However, I have my doubts about that list of missing unique mixes:

    -I think it was stablished that there was no unique mono You Can't Do That, or that it was identical to the UK mix.

    -The German song wasn't really a different mix, I think it was something different (channels reversed?). Maybe slane or lukpac remember this.

    -And Your Bird Can Sing was mixed for the US in stereo, but they used the same levels for the UK mix, so they are really identical.

    That would leave only four missing mixes. Regarding Long Tall Sally, there is documentation that proves it's a unique mix. However, no one I have talked to in this forum or others have been able to tell me how it is different from the UK mix (apart from the extra reverb and channel movement of Capitol's, not corresponding to George Martin's unique mix).
     
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  21. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    The Beatles story is best listened to with reverb.
     
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  22. Sidewinder43

    Sidewinder43 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pasadena, TX
    My question is why duplicate stuff that is readily available elsewhere. The real point of the set is to deliver the alternate listening experience (like it or not YMMV) that the Capitol albums provided.

    One thing that really sticks in my craw is the use of the mono mixes for some songs, such as She Loves You, I'll Get You, Love Me Do, and P.S. I Love You, on the stereo portion of their respective albums. I'd rather have some sort of fake stereo.
     
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  23. You are probably correct about what constitutes missing unique mixes. The post I pulled the data from was an older one from Slane and I suspect some of the data has been updated.
     
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  24. A well respected man

    A well respected man Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    One could ask the same thing to the people that wanted this set to replicate the Capitol boxes.


    The point of this set was to deliver that alternate experience with the best possible sound, the unique mixes (where they committed a few mistakes) and eliminating Capitol's manipulations (which many fans don't like). To get the whole Capitol experience you already had the Capitol boxes (though incomplete).
     
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  25. This is also very cool:

    http://www.harrisonline.com/audio/alwiman05.mp3

    Paul Harris Online: Al Wiman with The Beatles

     

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