The Beatles U.S. Albums box set - your impressions ... (continued)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. Sidewinder43

    Sidewinder43 Forum Resident

    Pasadena, TX
    The unique Capitol stuff was not readily available elsewhere from Y&T onwards. Don't forget, MMT also had unique mixes (not just duophonics).

    That was Apple's point. The point for many many fans was different.

    I think we'll agree to disagree.
  2. A well respected man

    A well respected man Forum Resident

    Madrid, Spain
    By the way, the use of the 09 remasters in traks where there was no unique American mix is not exactly duplication, since they were mastered differently by Greg Calbi. Some months ago I posted an article in which Calbi explained what he did exactly:

    Then came a casual comment that made me sit, bolt upright, in my seat. I reviewed the original Beatles In Stereo CD box set, released in 2009 and remembered Abbey Road mastering engineer, Steve Rooke, saying that he used a Junger D01 limiter/compressor to increase the general levels by 3-4db. Despite the team applying level correction after the Junger was employed, I have always felt that the Stereo set sounds rather cold with an essential splash of emotion removed, as a result. So, imagine my surprise when Greg Calbi declared that, although they received the 2009 UK masters for use in the U.S. Albums box set, they were received in an uncompressed state with no limiting applied. And then this, “My feeling about the 2009 masters was that they sounded great but, in relation to my memory of the records, sounded just a little bit towards the sterile side,” said Calbi. “Clean and precise but just a hair sterile. Knowing that the American albums were just the opposite, they were dirty because of the late generation tapes, we elected to make the thing sound a little bit smoother. It’s a slight difference, though.”

    Both eyebrows began to rise. They continued as Calbi further described how he handled the 2009 masters for the U.S. Albums box set, “I added a neutral gain structure to the stereo files. I wouldn’t even call it compression but the result is a hair louder than the original non-compressed files. I didn’t push the files through any multi-band compression or maximiser.”

    Frankly, I could have hugged the guy. The chance of hearing the stereo masters, without any limiting applied, would be worth the price of the box set alone, “They’ve been put through a subtle analogue-to-digital re-write back to the same sampling rate in order to move into a direction of, I would say, smoother and a little bit more bass clarity but both are very subtle,” said Calbi. “To keep the spirit of the 2009 masters, two things had to be done. Firstly, taking the songs that were not on the same record and putting them into a new record so the consistency of the listen had to be taken into consideration. But anyone who listens to the 2009 masters and this set will hear a subtle difference. I wanted to make this box set a more musical listen without putting a mark on it in any way or change the balances or the relationship between the instruments.”

    The Beatles: Which CD Version? (Part 1) - The Audiophile Man

    The Beatles: Which CD Version? (Part 2) - The Audiophile Man
  3. A well respected man

    A well respected man Forum Resident

    Madrid, Spain
    You are right about the Capitol set not being complete. We can agree that both sets have issues.

    Not sure about that. I have read tons of comments from fans who are happy about having their beloved American albums with better sound. Some others were not happy, but at least they have the Capitol boxes for most of the albums.
  4. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Austin, TX, USA
    Those wanting Capitol Albums Vol.3 largely want an accurate Yesterday and Today on CD. Sure, you'll find the sticklers want the panned AHDN or MMT with the US mix of SFF and three duophonic tracks, but what most people are annoyed with is that they didn't get a proper Y&T. Period.

    Now, what is a proper Y&T? Well, in mono, that's easy. In stereo, not-so-much. Do you put the unique stereo versions of IOS, AYBCS, and DR like the tape versions or duophonic like most of the stereo LPs? And, once you decide on which one is "correct", do the others become bonus tracks that you tack on the end or are they left out entirely?

    Regardless of the approach, I believe that if Y&T had been on Vol. 2 instead of The Early Beatles, few would be clamoring for a Vol. 3.
  5. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Platinum certification because it was a double album, but 500,000 thousand copies sold.
  6. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Austin, TX, USA
    Damn Wikipedia!
    Price.pittsburgh likes this.
  7. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Yeah, but only because I remember knowing it was double.
  8. cwitt1980

    cwitt1980 Forum Resident

    Carbondale, IL USA
    Or everything would be almost peachy had they done 5 discs to each set keeping it to 64-66. The first containing Meet, Second, Something New, '65, & Early. The second could have had VI, Help!, Rubber Soul, Y&T, Revolver. Even then, we're still missing Story, Hey Jude, MMT, the UA AHDN, and Hollywood Bowl for the completists.
    dlokazip likes this.
  9. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    I'm puzzled as to why you think there's any mystery about this, when Lennon's comments make the answers to those questions quite clear. He was the one who pushed for the image to be used on the cover of Y&T, and his motivation was to shake up the band's "angelic" image.
    I don't like being locked in to one game all the time, and there we were supposed to be sort of angels. I wanted to show that we were aware of life, and I really was pushing for that album cover. I would say I was a lot of the force behind it going out and trying to keep it out.
    I especially pushed for it to be an album cover, just to break the image.

    Yet no one in the band has ever said publicly that that was their intention. No evidence has emerged that anyone ever discussed it privately, either. So this theory is based on zero evidence.
    Onder and lukpac like this.
  10. m4murder

    m4murder Forum Resident

    Sunderland, UK
    I am trying to compile where possible an official 'source' from CD of the original US album mixes. My starter for 10 is the two Capitol Years box sets leaving me needing sources for the following:
    • Yesterday & Today - Mono/Stereo
    • UA A Hard Day's Night - Mono/Stereo
    • Revolver - Mono/Stereo
    Revolver can be sourced from the 87 /09 CD for Stereo and 09 for Mono.

    The Stereo Yesterday and Today tracks that are not unique to the US can be sourced from the original stereo mixes of Help! and Rubber Soul issued with the Mono Box.

    The following Mono / Stereo tracks from Y&T and UA/AHDN can be found on the US Albums set:

    Mono (the non UQ ones can also be obtained from the MONO box)
    • I'm Only Sleeping - UQ
    • Nowhere Man
    • Doctor Robert - UQ
    • Yesterday
    • Act Naturally
    • And Your Bird Can Sing - UQ
    • We Can Work It Out
    • What Goes On
    • Day Tripper
    • A Hard Day's Night
    • Tell Me Why
    • I'll Cry Instead - UQ
    • I'm Happy Just To Dance With You
    • I Should Have Known Better
    • If I Fell
    • And I Love Her - UQ
    • Can't Buy Me Love
    • We Can Work It Out
    • Day Tripper
    • I'll Cry Instead
    This I believe leaves me with the following 12 tracks which I have no official CD source for:

    • Drive My Car (Mono Fold)
    • If I Needed Someone (Mono Fold)
    • I'm Only Sleeping (US mix)
    • Doctor Robert (US Mix)
    • And Your Bird Can Sing (US Mix)
    • A Hard Day's Night (Duophonic)
    • Tell Me Why (Duophonic)
    • I'm Happy Just To Dance With You (Duophonic)
    • I Should Have Known Better (Duophonic)
    • If I Fell (Duophonic)
    • And I Love Her (Duophonic)
    • Can't Buy Me Love (Duophonic)
    Naturally, with trivial effort I could recreate the two mono folds from the original stereo mixes but this would still leave me needing 10 tracks short.

    Is this a reasonable summary?
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  11. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Forum Resident

    Stereo with, respectively, the mumbling and the count-in.

    Adam9 likes this.
  12. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    There are no duophonic tracks on the stereo UA AHDN soundtrack. The fake stereo tracks are more like someone fiddling with a pan pot. There is no official CD source for these, and there may never be. The only option is copies from the LP or one of the tape versions. These really are pretty crappy, but I find them interesting in a historical context.

    The version of "I'll Cry Instead" on the stereo part of the 2014 CD is just the same mono version as on the mono part (and also on the mono Something New).
    m4murder likes this.
  13. ShallowMemory

    ShallowMemory Classical Princess

    The A Hard Day's Night 'stereo' tracks aren't duophonic just crudely pan potted mono with no attempt to make a stereo image.
    m4murder likes this.
  14. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    So does anyone think had the Capitol Boxes never existed and we had spent nearly 30 years with only the 87/88 and 09 cds, that the 2014 box would have been more well received?
  15. ShallowMemory

    ShallowMemory Classical Princess

    Probably because the biggest 'sin' was the use of those GM remixes without which I think they'd be little discussion and the packaging was superior.
    dlokazip and Price.pittsburgh like this.
  16. A well respected man

    A well respected man Forum Resident

    Madrid, Spain
    Good question. Difficult to tell with Beatles fans, but I would say it would have been more well-received, yes. Because I guess fans wouldn't expect them to be published in any form, so they would focus on the positive side of it.
    Price.pittsburgh likes this.
  17. DennisF

    DennisF Forum Resident

    Credit to the original poster (Raf) for constructing your own CDRs from the original 1965 stereo mixes instead of the 1987 remixes used on Beatles VI, Help!, Rubber Soul and Yesterday & Today with the other tracks from 2014. Not 100% historically accurate, but at least, no remixes. The only one I redid was Y&T, still listen to the 2006 Capitol for the other three. It sounds great!

    For those of you who want to replace those pesky ’87 mixes with the '65 stereo mixes and are worried about level-matching, here’s a handy-dandy guide to the amount (in dB) that you have to increase the level of each stereo track from the 2009 mono box in order to match the level of the corresponding track with an ’87 mix in the 2014 U.S. box. Originally posted by Raf.

    Help! +2.8 (and splice in the “James Bond” intro, of course)
    The Night Before +0.9
    You’ve Got to Hide Your Love Away +2.7
    I Need You +2.0
    Another Girl +0.6
    You’re Going to Lose That Girl +2.1
    Ticket to Ride +0.2
    Act Naturally +3.9
    It’s Only Love +5.6
    You Like Me Too Much +1.7
    Tell Me What You See +0.1
    I’ve Just Seen a Face +4.1
    Yesterday +4.0
    Dizzy Miss Lizzy +3.4
    Drive My Car +1.1
    Norwegian Wood +2.4
    You Won’t See Me +2.9
    Nowhere Man +2.4
    Think for Yourself +2.8
    Michelle +1.8
    What Goes On +2.6
    Girl +2.2
    In My Life +2.2
    Wait +1.9
    If I Needed Someone +2.2
    Run for Your Life +2.4
    ShallowMemory, prognastycator and Raf like this.
  18. billnunan

    billnunan Forum Resident

    Cleveland, Ohio
    Here is the bottom line for me on all this....

    Even if they released "The Capitol Albums Vol. 3", I would still want the US Albums 2014 box and would have happily enjoyed both.

    So........incredibly, we can enjoy The Beatles this way:

    Memory Lane------->>The Capitol Boxes
    US Experience with improved sound------>>The 2014 US Albums box
    The missing Y&T Memory lane experience----->>the Russian Boot
    The Greatest 1-2-3 album sequence in music history (Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver)------->>The 2009 UK Stereo Box
    The whole mono Beatles experience------>>>>>>The Mono Box
    The Beatles Live Experience---->>>The Hollywood Bowl
    Sgt. Pepper's------->>Great, improved sound on 2017 remaster

    The tiny fact that Y&T is missing some mixes on the US Albums Box is not going to cause me to not enjoy this plethora of Beatles delights.

    It's time to stop whining and to start enjoying.
  19. Sidewinder43

    Sidewinder43 Forum Resident

    Pasadena, TX
    I think there would be even more griping. With CAs 1 and 2, at least we have most of the authentic U.S. experience.
  20. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    The Duke City
    Probably, and criticism of them might have been as well.
  21. Charlie990

    Charlie990 Forum Resident

    Perrysburg Ohio
    I will chime in with agreement on appreciating and enjoying most of the info Lukpac shares. Especially the Stones work he has done. I wish someone could compile a similar work on the Beatles USA catalog. Hence my earlier plea for him to take on that project.
    I do disagree with some of his opinions concerning the 2014 USA Beatles box. I am more along the lines of the above mention that historical context is a great failing of that box set.
    Sidewinder43 and Gems-A-Bems like this.
  22. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    The Duke City
    Or, you could allow people to state their criticisms on a thread asking for impressions.
  23. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Yeah still woulda been there but maybe not as strong.
  24. billnunan

    billnunan Forum Resident

    Cleveland, Ohio
    Yes.....but after 3 years, those repeated criticisms are getting old and a pointless downer.

    Time to move on.
    JimSpark likes this.
  25. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Forum Resident

    So minus the contents of Capitol Volumes 1 and 2, we're talking about three songs.
    billnunan likes this.

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