The Beatles: UK Response to US Capitol versions?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by John Porcellino, May 18, 2016.

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  1. drad dog

    drad dog Forum Resident

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    I never heard of the other two countries but did you know that Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, and Gordon Lightfoot all came from Canada?
     
  2. Alcoholic

    Alcoholic Forum Resident

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    What are these flop singles on Tollie you keep bringing up?
     
  3. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

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    Liverpool, England
    But Drive My Car isn't on the Capitol rubber Soul, it's on the Parlophone one. Yet there it is, right before Norwegian Wood. If Capitol's Rubber Soul was so influential shouldn't Nowhere Man should be after the Capitol Rubber Soul section and before Drive My Car which was first on Yesterday and Today in the US.
     
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  4. drad dog

    drad dog Forum Resident

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    This was precisely because they had been left behind in the rush to exploit product that was more "commercial" during Beatlemania. Those two songs were idiosyncratic and personal, so they got left behind for the teen market, but also wound up being right for Rubber Soul.

    Does anyone really not believe that Rubber Soul was the LP where the adults started purchasing the Beatles records? Might this have an unintended effect on the boys who, while being geniuses, were on the ground running and wondering where it was going to stop, and still in their minds selling records to teenage girls? You think there were no accidents and pitfalls along the way towards the artistic sublime? Every track listing is delivered from the mount?
     
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  5. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

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    Those flop singles couldn't possibly be Tollie's US No. 2 smash hit Twist and Shout and US No.1 smash hit Love Me Do and Swan's US Number 1 smash hit She Loves You, surely? Remember, Capitol, Capitol, Capitol.
     
  6. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

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    Do you think The Beatles ever heard a Capitol Rubber Soul LP?
     
  7. drad dog

    drad dog Forum Resident

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    Lennon was impulsive in interviews. That's putting it mildly and politely. He also said he didn't believe in Beatles. Anyone on board with that? He said his greatest work was with YO. Anyone signing up?
     
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  8. drad dog

    drad dog Forum Resident

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    I'm sure they had many acquaintances who had it. Do you think they were hiding in their closets for that decade?
     
  9. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

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    What a curious thing to say
     
  10. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

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    The OP's insinuation wasn't that the Beatles stayed away from America because they wanted to. He contended that the Beatles were saved from vanishing into obscurity and irrelevance by America. You're making my point for me: the Kinks weren't allowed to play in America for four years but remained a popular and artistically relevant act in Britain and Europe during that time. Ergo, success in America isn't necessary for continued success and relevance elsewhere. As for The Who, with the exception of "I Can See For Miles" and, to a lesser extent, "Happy Jack," their record sales were not great in America before Tommy. Certainly nothing on the level of the Beatles or Stones.
     
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  11. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

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    Yeah, I don't believe that. Everything I've ever read/heard suggests that Pepper was when adults started taking the Beatles seriously, and that the older generations were not buying Beatles LPs en masse at any time. I had never heard of Rubber Soul being the turning point, especially in the US, but I'm open to any evidence you have, as that'd be interesting to see. I definitely haven't seen evidence that the Beatles saw how Capitol reconfigured Rubber Soul, saw adults in the States buying that configuration, and realized they could become more "serious", worldly artists. That just doesn't fit with anything I've ever heard anyone involved with the band say. The group and George Martin are very clear in interviews that they were "taking over the studio" (John) by fall 1965 and made that record, in spite of deadlines, pretty much exactly the way they wanted to - as a complete artistic statement. If anything, Rubber Soul is a strong candidate for being the first Beatles album where the track listing is sacrosanct.
     
  12. Fa La La

    Fa La La Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression hearing this was part of the reason they insisted Pepper be the same in UK and US. Brian Wilson always makes a big deal about Capitol Rubber Soul inspiring Pet Sounds. But come to think of it whether they actually listened to the entire album front to back I'm not sure. They were still very busy touring, recording, doing press constantly then. I doubt they would take time out to listen butchered versions of there albums unless they were at a social gathering in the states and it just happened to be on.
     
  13. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

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    Success in, and then suddenly being banned in the US for four prime Brit-Invasion years did, arguably, change what the Kinks chose to write about. They went from rousing, inspired-by Mose Allison, R&B, 'Louie Louie' raves to writing more and more about the quaint and sometimes fantastic life of the English classes. They became an 'English' band. :) I'd garner that some of that had to do with being stuck on the continent and in the district. It did change music history on some level. It could be conjectured that a band like the Stones benefited the most from the Kink's US absence.
     
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  14. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

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    Sure, but that's a different point. The contention was that if the Beatles hadn't been successful in America, they would've gone the way of the Dave Clark Five.

    Also the Stones were a much better white boy blues band than the Kinks, thanks to Brian Jones and Mick Jagger!
     
  15. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

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    That is something we'll never know.
     
  16. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

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    Paul likely had an idea or two about 'I've Just Seen A Face' being a highly-thought-of number.

    Someone should ask him about it, and the Capitol albums as well.

     
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  17. slane

    slane Forum Resident

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    England
    That's not true. By the time of Help!, Capitol had fully caught up with the UK releases. In fact, after Beatles VI they were slightly ahead! It was only the decision to release Help! as a soundtrack album that put them behind again. But all Capitol had in hand really was the June 1965 recordings that they had omitted from Help! - two of those were then released as a single and the other two went on Rubber Soul.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  18. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
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    He was playing the song on the UK tour the previous year.

    Americans talk about the song being 'buried' on the UK Help! album, but it was always a favourite of mine (long before I knew of the US Rubber Soul) and never seemed 'buried' at all. I suppose Yesterday was even more buried then.
     
  19. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

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    Right, that's why it's an absurd contention for that poster to have made.
     
  20. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

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    One suspects that if the Beatles had authority to do so at the time, they would have demanded that all releases going forward match up with the UK versions and that Capitol just figure out something to do with the two leftover Help tracks.
     
  21. drad dog

    drad dog Forum Resident

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    I don't know what you've been reading. What about starting with the Rubber Soul Wiki? You think Rubber Soul and Revolver were business as usual LPs for the fabs? More Beatlemania?

    I think Rubber Soul was more influential musically and stylistically over the decades than Pepper. Revolver was too, naturally. What do you see when you look around? I see RS a lot and Pepper much less so.

    Students, beats, artists, stoners, nascent hippies, folkies, exis, the wider culture, at least in the US, all got into the beatles because of rubber soul, not Sgt Pepper. Pepper was released May 26, 1967. They had the "Death of Hippie" march on October 6, 1967. It was a lot of hype to be sure, and a great celebration in the culture, but you are letting your reading blind you to actual events.
     
  22. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

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    Those two were highly-loved and highly-featured in the US. 'Yesterday', of course, was a #1 Capitol single.

    The Beatles vetoed its release as a UK single (due to it being soley Paul?).
     
  23. slane

    slane Forum Resident

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    England
    As I said, going into Help!, Capitol were slightly ahead (by putting 3 early Help! songs on Beatles VI). They had the perfect opportunity to put the remaining 11 songs out as their Help! album. But they didn't.
     
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  24. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

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    I'm sorry, I don't know how to participate in this conversation when you keep shifting your argument from post to post. In your last post, you said that Rubber Soul was when adults started buying Beatles records in the US. Now you're accusing me of saying that RS and Revolver were simply "business as usual LPs for the fabs." I never said that. I said that we have ample evidence that the older generation didn't take the Beatles seriously as an artistic force until Pepper. I did not say Pepper has been more influential or that RS/Revolver were not artistically substantial albums. To the contrary, my belief that RS was a huge artistic step forward informs my insistence that the Capitol version may be more pleasant for some listeners but it should not be "canon."
     
  25. drad dog

    drad dog Forum Resident

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    New England
    "Thats not true! I agree with you!"
     
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