The best sound counterweight for Nagaoka MP500 on Rega RP6.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by kazu, May 26, 2015.

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  1. kazu

    kazu Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    I use Nagaoka MP500(8g) cart on Rega RP6.

    I'm concern about counterweight.
    My stock Rega 100g counterweight is near end of stub. I align the MP500 to baerwald arc.

    My question is the following.
    I am very please if you give me good advices about this issue.

    Thank you:)

    1) Should I replace the Rega 100gm counterweight to heavier weight?
    2) What benefit about sound quality I can get when I replace it to heavier weight?
    3) What product is the best? groove tracer, ISOKINETIK etc...
     
  2. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    I have the IsoKinetik 144g model to go with my DL-103/headshell weight. They make great stuff.

    http://www.isokinetik.co.uk/

    Would probably be good with the 130g model.

    A proper, underslung counterweight on a Rega arm (IME) adds a lot to the bottom end and lower-mids, delineation of instruments in 3D space on the soundstage and some nice air to the upper freqs along with increased clarity/realism of decay on high hats and cymbals...
    YMMV
     
    Long Live Analog and kazu like this.
  3. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    I made the same recommendation last time you asked this question, the Rega Heavy Tungsten counterweight.
     
  4. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    You can add some lead tape to the existing one, it will have the effect as buying a heavier weight. It will then be closer to the pivot.
     
    utahusker likes this.
  5. maskdbagel

    maskdbagel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Honest question: if the VTF is identical with two different counterweights, what exactly is the mechanism by which sound qualities (I mean the characteristics of the sound itself, not its "goodness") would change at all? I can be a bit of a tweak skeptic, granted, but this is one I really don't understand. Someone drop some education here?
     
  6. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    The thing that will happen with a heavier CW is that effective mass at needletip is slightly reduced. We might want that, but then again we might not want that.
     
  7. maskdbagel

    maskdbagel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I see. That makes sense. And the better your feedback/resonance isolation, the less of a factor high effective mass is, yes? My understanding is that effective mass comes into play most in response to vibration or disturbances of various sorts. So would good isolation and a counterweight upgrade would attack the same issues to some extent?
    Thanks for the explanation! Always good to keep learning. :)
     
  8. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    The eff mass at needletip will have a resonance with cantilever suspension, the higher eff mass the lower the res frequency, keeping the same stylus. For many setups it will be an advantage to have a lower eff mass so that the res will be slightly higher in freq. But with many setups this is no big deal IMO, also to know how the res freq will change one really has to measure using different CWs. I don´t see CWs as an upgrade, they just have different masses to fit arm balance, and changing the eff mass a bit.
     
  9. kazu

    kazu Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
  10. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    I tried the Groove tracer cw on my Rega RP6. My ears said it sounded worse than the original so I went back :sigh: . Don't know if it was placebo or fact but decided to sell the GT and buy a Coltrane original Impulse Mono record instead ;)

    I believe AS show the wrong picture. As far as I know the heavy tungsten have the slot going around the middle of it.
     
    kazu likes this.
  11. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm

    My guess these weights are made to visually appeal, not that they are 'better' than the original. They are underslung but also wider, which has no meaning technically. What in practise will happen is that VTF will vary more than on a normal CW.
     
  12. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    I think you are spot on here. I'm not sure what happened to the sound but it felt "stressed" and like it was constantly changing in a bad way and I believe the bass got worse/lower. This was when I used it without the Rega spring (above 3). When I used it with the spring I felt it got a little bit better. In my system and ears I preferred the original weight though :). Live and learn.
     
  13. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    huh? Man. GT counterweight on my RP6/2m Bronze was a subtle but definite improvement no question. So many variables yada yada.
     
    Long Live Analog likes this.
  14. kazu

    kazu Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    I tried setting Rega Extra Heavy Counterweight - Tungsten on my Rega RP6 with Nagaoka MP-500 instead of Rega stock 100g counterweight.
    Unfortunately, the sounds of my RP6 didn’t improve with this item sonically.

    Rather, it made sounds very much "tight" and "bad"!!!

    Please, anyone let me know good improved counterweight sonically for Rega RP6.
    I think that it need about 120g-130g weight for my Nagaoka MP500 (8grams)

    Thanks!
     
  15. Antares

    Antares Forum Resident

    Location:
    Flanders
    Use the standard (lighter) counterweight and add mass to it in small increments (like 5 grams at a time). Just stick metal washers on the back with double sided tape or something, whatever you can come up with. You'll find the optimum weight for your Nagaoka with the sound you like (and maybe one of the optional counterweights is close enough for a more permanent/elegant solution).
     
  16. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    One often overlooked design point is that some aftermarket counterweights include a stub that connects to the interior of the arm differently. Essentially, a threaded plate is screwed into the arm end. This plate holds a screw that extends and connects with the stub, which is not itself screwed into the arm. This creates a different tension and changes the moment of inertia. That, in my experience, may be the way to go.
     
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