the contentious subject of speaker cables

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by action pact, Mar 1, 2014.

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  1. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    On who?
     
  2. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    Ok I cut out all the other stuff and just left the beer part. Victory Brewhouse is a great place for a bite to eat and the beer is top notch. Have been there a number of times. Just a bit loud at times (read - large open echo chamber)

    We are actually in the New Hope area quite a bit with friends and never even knew about the Cable Co. I will definitely check them out. I do like the idea of being able to try out what they recommend. I tracked my EMI issue down I believe (or at least removed a good bit of it - still some cleanup to do) and my curiosity is greatly peaked to see if there is any perceived difference in sound trying a swap. Little did I know there was a place like this, and one relatively close to me. Cables in any of the stores around me are more like - "buy it, you no like it you keep it anyway and sell to someone else".
     
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  3. kevintomb

    kevintomb Forum Resident

    Some people only want to read comments that mostly agree with what their own views are.
    Anything else they consider as being wrong.

    One flaw with that thinking though, is that among Pro's, Equipment Designers, Engineers, Audiophiles, etc, there is no one opinion that is in total agreement.

    There is no one answer to all these questionable topics that is universally agreed upon.

    When I see someone unwilling to even consider they could be wrong, or do not even consider any other view, it is their loss.
     
  4. AxiomAcoustics

    AxiomAcoustics "The enemy is listening"

    Victory is great. Also love the Weyerbacher Double Simcoe. Wait, sorry, thought I was on Beer Advocate. Damn Chrome tabs.

    Lemme know what you think of the Cable Co.

    EMI? Interference or the label?:cool:
     
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  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    That is you.
     
    DaveC113, F1nut, art and 4 others like this.
  6. kevintomb

    kevintomb Forum Resident


    OOh Please, I am wrong a lot. I can admit it.

    How many times have you read:

    "I Know what I hear, nobody can tell me I am wrong!" ( in regards to a cable or some minor change made to a system)

    Nothing is 100% for sure. Bias and perception play into anything that is changed. It is always a possibility to some extent.

    Just knowing something is changed is enough to make someone listen differently.

    If that is not fair, I do not know what is.
     
  7. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    Isn't that a great website. I'm on a moratorium with beer till the end of May and it's KILLING me!!!

    Given I walk by Monks in Philly just about every day hearing those sweet yummy brews calling me. I'll probably gain back all the weight I lose in about 2 weeks of drinking :) My other favorite watering hole in Philly is Eulogy. Anyone in the Philly area that likes a great bar with terrific beers on tap (or bottle) is in for a treat with either place.

    EMI - I was getting a hum/buzz from the new TT that my Technics was not getting so it came down to unplugging, rewiring, etc.
     
  8. AxiomAcoustics

    AxiomAcoustics "The enemy is listening"

    I think I remember you asking about cabling for your new VPI? I had commented on that hence my question. I've never had any EMI/RFI issues whatsoever. Did you go with the VPI interconnect? Ground wire?

    Sorry to all for the "beer derailment".

    While I live in "Beervana" I still follow and buy PA brews here due to being a PA native. I consider Dogfish in the "Philly metro area":agree:. mmmmmmm, Dogfish Head.:drool:
     
  9. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Cables changes have been a real eye-opener for me. The more transparent and revealing your system becomes, the more apparent even minor changes or tweaks become... IMHO.
     
  10. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Well, there is a Rastaferian audio cult I'm aware of . . .
     
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  11. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    I'm using a brand new VPI phono cable (with ground). Would I need a second ground? This one comes off the RCA terminal block. I was wondering if I should ad a second chassis mounted one.

    So tonearm block --> VPI phono cable --> PS Audio GCPH --> to RCA input on pre (I just picked the CD one on the Marantz to use as I don't use a player).
     
  12. AxiomAcoustics

    AxiomAcoustics "The enemy is listening"

    If you've got the ground going to the PS Pre from the block you should be fine. Still getting noise?
     
  13. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    a bit. Actually at the shop I bought it from there was noise there too. I'm wondering if there is an issue with the table now? Who knows, there is more due diligence I need to perform on my part before going there. It's a huge rats nest in the back and I'm in the process of cleaning that up.
     
  14. molinari

    molinari Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york city
    Those cables should be elevated.
     
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  15. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    If you can get your signal cables going one way and the power cables going the other, and try to not run any parallel—that’t about as good as it gets.

    I set up an alternate ground point on my phono amp power supply and worked with different combinations for the TT motor and tonearm ground. The phono pre was the best.
     
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  16. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    I'm going to dig into this ground/EMI/RFI/Who the heck knows hum issue this weekend. I'll take a few pictures for the "This is not how you are supposed to wire" crowd.
     
  17. BrokenByAudio

    BrokenByAudio Forum Resident

    Kevintomb likes this???
     
  18. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    Well I took no pictures but the banana plugs are very well made, easy to setup and fit great in the speakers. Loving it. Another side note was the hum I was hearing has magically almost completely disappeared - no idea why. I can turn the gain up to 3 or 4 o'clock on my GCPH and that noise is so nice to not have around.

    I also picked up another set of cheap speaker cables (raw roll) to try out. I figured for the price (less than $20 for 50ft) I figured why not. This is 12awg instead of the belden I'm using at 10awg. I read a rather lengthy review about cables and curiosity got to me in this area. I think when the weather warms up I'm going to try a "real" set of speaker cables and do some listening.

    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2747&seq=1&format=2

    Also have comcast stopping by tomorrow for an install - should be fun.
     
  19. JazzPolice

    JazzPolice Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what this means. Can you explain?
     
  20. kevintomb

    kevintomb Forum Resident


    The "Ideal" or "Goal" of any conductor or component ( electrical ) is no change to the circuit other than the intentional change that the component is designed to do.

    With a conductor the goal is to transfer a signal from one point ( node) to another. The worst possible conductor (say 250 Feet long!)would add resistance and inductance etc, and would alter the sound for sure, especially at high frequencies, as the effects are far more pronounced at frequency rises.

    Going to a 25 foot cable reduces these losses a great deal,
    going even shorter to a 5 foot cable even less loss.
    Going to a 1 foot cable almost no loss at all.
    Going to no cable, No loss whatsoever since there is no cable.

    The goal, and how things are designed, is for the point at the amps output to be the same exact value at the speaker terminal.

    Things, can not be improved at all, as there can only be insertion "Losses" from a cable. The amount of loss can be next to nothing or it can be fairly significant.

    But the only thing that can be altered, is a reduction of the signal in one way or another.

    (( assuming no unusual interactions, impedance wise between the amp and speaker crossover etc))
     
    theron d likes this.
  21. autodidact

    autodidact Forum Resident

    I don't know. Sometimes it seems you can't admit that someone else might be right, and that you just haven't heard or are unable to hear the effect. With my ears in their current state, I'm not sure that even if I had Michael Fremer's system, I could hear the things others claim to hear. However, I do not deny that they may be hearing those effects. You however almost always attribute differences you don't believe in to listener bias. You don't give experienced listeners the benefit of the doubt. In my experience, and with my younger ears, I found that everything makes a difference. Capacitors, wires, resistors, you name it. Maybe some of those differences were because I listened differently. But all of them? No, I can't buy that. People have different levels of visual acuity, and I'm sure the same is true of audio acuity, especially as we age. You might take that into consideration.
     
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  22. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Same here. The speaker cables I have now made from silver have improved the clarity of the music and bass so well I just forget about the gear and think about the musicians performance.
     
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  23. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    I'm also looking at silver speaker cables. I'm going back and forth between threads here and on HUG, and I can't wrap my head around the angle they take there on everything but the speakers. Not saying it's wrong, I just don't get it, and I love my Harbeths.
     
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  24. art

    art Senior Member

    Location:
    520
    Same here.
     
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  25. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I seem to prefer the new silver cables but some designers including Chris Sommovigo tell me that metallurgy doesn't matter as much as overall design. His reference cables usually have a mix of copper and silver.
     
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