The Creation - Action Painting [New 2CD set]

What are the chances?

I guess it boils down to whether you just want their 60's stuff, or their 80's and 90's work as well.

 

Same 60s material larded out with the crap reunions. Hard pass, sticking with the Numero release.

 

Agreed. In Numero I trust!

 

Agreed. In Numero I trust!

 

Agreed. In Numero I trust!

 

Here is the track listing for Creation Theory so you can compare.

Track Listings
Disc: 1
1. Rock Around The Clock
2. Slow Down
3. Try It Baby
4. Crazy Country Hop
5. Hurt Me If You Will
6. I'm Leaving
7. Work All Day (Sleep All Night)
8. Going Down Fast
9. Making Time
10. Try And Stop Me
11. Painter Man
12. Biff Bang Pow
13. Sylvette
14. If I Stay Too Long
15. Nightmares
16. Cool Jerk
17. Like A Rolling Stone
18. Can I Join Your Band
19. Hey Joe
20. Life Is Just Beginning
21. Through My Eyes
22. How Does It Feel To Feel [UK version]
23. Tom Tom
24. How Does It Feel To Feel [US version]
25. I Am The Walker
26. Ostrich Man
27. Sweet Helen

Disc: 2
1. Midway Down
2. The Girls Are Naked
3. Bony Moronie
4. Mercy, Mercy, Mercy
5. For All That I Am
6. Uncle Bert
7. Making Time [instrumental]
8. Painter Man
9. Biff Bang Pow
10. Sylvette [full length]
11. If I Stay Too Long
12. Nightmares
13. Cool Jerk
14. Like A Rolling Stone
15. Can I Join Your Band
16. Hey Joe
17. Life Is Just Beginning
18. Through My Eyes
19. How Does It Feel To Feel [UK version]
20. Tom Tom
21. How Does It Feel To Feel [US version]
22. Midway Down
23. For All That I Am
24. Instrumental # 1
25. How Does It Feel To Feel [instrumental]

Disc: 3
1. Hurt Me If You Will
2. Got My Mojo Workin'
3. That's How Strong My Love Is
4. Lay The Ghost
5. Psychedelic Rose
6. Radio Beautiful
7. United
8. Doing It My Way
9. Making Time [new version]
10. Far From Paradise
11. White Knight
12. Spirit Called Love
13. The Jimi Hendrix Trilogy

Disc: 4
1. Creation
2. Power Surge
3. Someone's Gonna Bleed
4. Shock Horror
5. That's How I Found Love
6. Killing Song
7. Nobody Wants To Know
8. City Life
9. English Language
10. Free Men Live Forever
11. Ghost Division
12. O+N
13. Woodstock Daze
14. Good Times

Disc: 5
1. Eddie Phillips Interview
2. Making Time
3. I'm A Man
4. That's How Strong My Love Is
5. Try And Stop Me
6. Painter Man
7. Try And Stop Me
8. Life Is Just Beginning
9. I'm A Man
10. Nightmares
11. If I Stay Too Long
12. Batman
13. Biff Bang Pow
14. Try And Stop Me
15. Life Is Just Beginning
16. I'm A Man
17. Nightmares
18. If I Stay Too Long
19. Hey Joe
20. Making Time
21. Creation
22. Power Surge
23. Tom Tom
24. That's How Strong My Love Is
25. How Does It Feel To Feel
26. Painter Man
27. Biff Bang Pow

 

Action Painting - track listing,

Tracklist
[CD1]
1. Making Time
2. Try And Stop Me
3. Painter Man
4. Biff, Bang, Pow
5. Sylvette (Edit)
6. If I Stay Too Long
7. Nightmares
8. Life Is Just Beginning
9. Through My Eyes
10. How Does It Feel To Feel
11. Tom Tom
12. Can I Join Your Band
13. Midway Down
14. The Girls Are Naked
15. Bonie Maronie
16. Mercy Mercy Mercy
17. For All That I Am
18. Uncle Bert
19. Cool Jerk
20. I Am The Walker
21. Ostrich Man
22. Sweet Helen
23. How Does It Feel To Feel (US Version)

[CD2]
1. Hurt Me If You Will
2. I'm Leaving
3. Work All Day (Sleep All Night)
4. Going Down Fast
5. How Does It Feel To Feel (US Version - New Stereo Mix)
6. Biff, Bang, Pow (New Stereo Mix)
7. For All That I Am (New Stereo Mix)
8. Can I Join Your Band (New Stereo Mix)
9. Through My Eyes (New Stereo Mix)
10. Tom Tom (New Stereo Mix)
11. Midway Down (New Stereo Mix)
12. Nightmares (New Stereo Mix)
13. Life Is Just Beginning (New Stereo Mix)
14. Painter Man (New Stereo Mix)
15. If I Stay Too Long (New Stereo Mix)
16. How Does It Feel To Feel (UK Version - New Stereo Mix)
17. Cool Jerk (New Stereo Mix)
18. Hey Joe (New Stereo Mix)
19. Like A Rolling Stone (New Stereo Mix)
20. Making Time (Instrumental)
21. Sylvette (Full Length)
22. Instrumental 1
23. How Does It Feel To Feel (Instrumental)

 

These are territory specific releases - I'm not sure how that works these days - but Demon is for Europe and Numero US & Can.
Alec worked with Shel Talmy to create the 60s audio, so it should be the best so far.
Alec also had access to Shel's archive of memorabilia. I've seen the artwork and it looks phenomenal.

 

I am not sure about Action Painting but Eddie Phillips supposedly let them use his memorabilia for the Creation Theory book.

 

Creation Theory uses Eddie and Phil Smee's archive (Phil's was also used on the Creation 7s Box from a few years back)
Action Painting uses Shel's, the woman who used to run the Creation fan club and a collector called Roch Vidal from France, who has a vast array of international releases.

 

There are a few things missing here [the two alternate takes of Life Is Just Beginning from the Retroactive compilations instantly spring to mind], and there doesn't seem to be anything from the first [proper] reunion show in 1993 [which saw it's own release as the 'Lay The Ghost' CD], so neither of these new sets is entirely complete. Having heard the samples of the new mixes though, I'm very much in for this. And while I wasn't overly-impressed with the new material that came out of the reunions, I thought they still sounded great live [certainly as good if not better than any of their contemporaries who were still playing live], so Creation Theory it is for me.

 

Went with Creation Theory, since I wanted all of the Mark Four singles (instead of just the four tracks on the Numero release). Plus, I love those live performances from German TV, so getting those on DVD is nice too. Plus, I'm a sucker for a signed edition, so I pre-ordered the Amazon Exclusive Edition (which is the same price as the regular edition):

Creation Theory - (Amazon Exclusive Edition): Amazon.co.uk: Music

 

Listening to the audio samples on the Numero website, I'm not terribly impressed with the stereo mixes. Not a fan of drums in mostly one channel. Granted, the tapes may have had some limitations, so they may have not had a lot of options (unless they went with more narrow stereo separation). I also couldn't help but notice a missing guitar part in "Tom Tom" (which reminds of the missing guitar part in Talmy's stereo mix for "My Generation"). But for those who like lop-sided 60s stereo mixes, this may be worth having, since it really does sound like a stereo mix you'd get from that era.

I'll stick with the original mono mixes which work better for these songs. Still, I'm on board for the reissue.

By the way, if you do order the Numero version, they will give you free MP3 downloads to listen to right away, in advance of the CD release.

 

One more thing... after listening to the new release, I notice that the backing vocals on "If I Stay Too Long" are absent on both the mono and stereo mixes. The version that I'm used to (from the Retroactive CDs and the single release) has backing vocals on the chorus. Has a version of this song been released before without the backing vocals? I could see the new stereo mix missing the backing vocals, if Talmy couldn't locate them... but not the original mono mix... unless the mono mix here is a fold of the stereo mix.

 

I just received the Action Painting release from Numero. (I ended up ordering this in addition to the Creation Theory set, just to have both and compare the books in each.) The booklet is quite nice, even if a CD-sized book results in fairly small print. The book is fairly well detailed, with a description of each recording session.

I had previously commented (in the post above) about the missing backing vocals on "If I Stay Too Long." The book in the Numero release claims that that backing vocals were added to the single version. I have to wonder what other version was released, since they never released an LP during the 60s. Perhaps this version was released on the French EP. Regardless, I'm a bit disappointed that the single version wasn't included here, especially since there is room on the discs (as disc one is 66 minutes). I guess that means holding on to the Retroactive CDs.

 

I'm going for the Creation Theory set. I do find Numero's matching label b&w graphics across their line of releases regardless of the artist puts me off.

 

I love The Creation but I already have the 'Our Music Is Red... with Purple Flashes' CD compilation. I can't imagine there is anything essential that isn't included on that. The improved sound quality sounds appealing but I've never had a problem with the sound quality of that CD.

 

The earlier Retroactive CD comps (two volume set) were more complete. I'd at least get those. Not everything from those would fit on one disc and most of it is pretty essential IMHO since the band didn't record much in the 60s.

 

Thanks for this info. Is there any information in the book about when the tracks "Ostrich Man" and "Sweet Helen" were actually recorded, or what release they were originally intended for?

 

I'm in the same boat, not being one who's interested in minutely different takes/mixes of the same song. One version of each song would be enough for me in most cases. That said, Numero puts out really nice stuff and the completely-new songs would be nice to have.

 

My memory is hazy on this, so I can't tell you what version I prefer at the moment, but the different versions of "How Does it Feel to Feel" are pretty obviously different. One roars out of the speakers and the other sounds a bit tamer IIRC. For that reason alone having the complete recordings, or as close to it as you can get without spending a lot of $$$ makes sense. I have no idea what particular version is on that Purple Flashes comp.

 

Both of them.

 

Not being very familiar with The Creation I'm curious, are the tracks listed as "New Stereo Mixes" the only stereo cuts, or are there vintage stereo mixes in there as well?

Thanks.
Mark

 

The recording date and location for "Ostrich Man" is unknown, but the booklet speculates it was recorded at Olympic at roughly the same time as "I Am The Walker." The recording date for "Sweet Helen" is listed as 8 March 1968, recorded at IBC. They don't mention what the tracks were intended for. Since the sessions appeared to yield 1-2 tracks each, they likely were just looking for the next single. But that's speculation on my part.

All of the stereo tracks are listed as new mixes, with the exception of "Sylvette (full length)" and "Instrumental 1," which first appeared on the Retroactive CD/LP release in the 90s. The tracks "Making Time (backing track)" and "How Does It Feel (backing track)" are both listed as previously unreleased.

I did a comparison between the tracks on the Retroactive CDs and the new Numero CDs, comparing just the mono mixes (because that's really the only overlap, other than the two tracks mentioned above). I give the nod to the Numero release on sound quality. (Presumably the same remastering will apply to the Creation Theory release too.) One of my biggest complaints of the Retroactive CDs were mono mixes that were slightly out of balance on some tracks (with the mono tapes likely being played back on misaligned stereo heads). The tracks on the Numero release are completely in balance as you'd expect for mono mixes. Also, some of the weird sound glitches on "Cool Jerk" from the Retroactive CD are now missing. These are things one might only pick up with headphone listening, but I give the nod to the new masters.

My only complaint with the Numero release are the missing backing vocals on "If I Stay Too Long" that I've already mentioned. It kind of sucks the energy out of the song to have them missing. And with that being one of my favorite Creation tracks, it's a bummer not to hear the song the way I've come to enjoy it.

 

Thanks for the information. And I agree about If I Stay Too Long, the backing vocals are a huge part of that song! Amazon has the release date for this as March 17, so maybe you have an advance copy and that will actually be fixed before the official release?