The deterioration of sound at EMI-UK

Time was when I used to scour the bins of record shops in New York City for EMI-UK CDs. The Shadows, Cliff Richard and MFP (Music for Pleasure) series and of course, The Beatles.

Well, not anymore.

Just as you'd expect new technology would improve the sound of what's on these CDs, the quality has gone from bad to worse to worst.

What's going on here?

My take is that the guys doing the remastering at EMI-UK are getting old and getting old with their ears. Thus, their hearing is now suspect. And also a mistaken mindset of how a record should sound.

I'm sure George Martin's ears are going, and so are Peter Mew's and Jon Astley's. Also, these guys have the 70's mentality: A clean record is the desirable record. (The No-Noise process.) Listen to the soundtrack from "Ferry Cross The Mersey," or the first album from Herman's Hermits. The ultra clean but heartbreaking "All Things Must Pass," all the Hollies reissues (Butterfly, Evolution, etc.) and just about any CD remastered by Peter Mew or Jon Astley.

Now, what do we do about it?

Ranting here is good, but how good? Is there anyone we could count on who could pass on the message to EMI to let them know the state of the CD remastering union?

Surely, they DO have a good system to hear what they've just remastered, don't they? Or, do they just have a compact replay system that's not any better than a boom-box?

You have to admit listening to all these No-Noised CDs on the boom-box is exhilarating. Or, is it?

George

 

>>>>>Peter Mew is still there, but I'm fairly sure that sir George Martin has nothing to do with EMI any longer. Plus, hes like 75 now, and his hearing IS shot, he admits that.

The problem is that its not ONLY EMI that has the No Noise mentality. Its most reissue labels.

This is really no different than the 60s when label bosses demanded the engineers make Fake stereo masters of all the old mono stuff to make hem "Sound Like Our Current Releases". Wht they think they have to do that is beyond me...it ISNT a current release.

 

Mikey, totally agree. I'll also take it a step further (which we all know already), it's the majority of the public. They've been "trained" to detest hiss. I think this "education" program started in the 80's as a marketing tool for the benefits of digital (even today analog/hiss strongly marketed as a negative thing in the mobile phone industry). This is something we all know and sadly have to live with. Thankfully, we have our great music resources out there to provide us with "un-doctored" stuff. It's all politics...

Todd

 

But just what is it?

I picked up the recent six-discer on Cliff Richard from EMI-UK. Bargain at the price but I don't quite understand what they're trying to do. The sound is nice and clean, heavy on mono rather than the old wide stereo. But I have to say it isn't true mono. Seems to be a very bright and open mix. Can't judge though whether its just really tight stereo or they've done something to the mix to make the mono wider. Darn hard to explain I'm afraid but not unpleasant to listen to.

Now the recently issued Live 62 Cliff Richard disc has a nice loud sound, stereo all the way. Seems they did that one right.

Best!

 

Since you specify no dates regarding your rant, please note Sir George Martin retired in 1999. He is now 76 years old.

Though there is a basis for debate over the CDs he ws responsible for or particpated in, he is no longer involved.

And as his work and experience have proven, I am glad he was there when he was.

It's just, for me, this is an unbelievably nice man and I can't bring myself to disparage his good name, rightly or wrongly.

 

I have to agree with that statement. If it weren't for George Martin, Parlaphone woulnd't have had much for eccentric tastes. Dudley Moore and Goon Show records, Beatles, on and on. He was responsible for so much. Without him, there woulnd't be.

 

I'm going to try and take a stab at the initial post. I hear what you're saying George (brother New Yorker). You're not happy with crop of CD's that's been produced in the UK. I think the thing is we can't lump everyone together and call it the same reasons. We're talking about apples & oranges (maybe even a bannana). George Martin was a music producer (retired now and hopefully enjoying his time of leisure). He was the man in charge of "getting those freak'n records made". He (of course) cared about the sound quality and had people working with him to ensure the product met his, the bands, the label's, etc. standards. He has also stated and worked his but off to meet the challenge of getting a good record out there. His career shows that clearly. Towards the end of his "working" days he was the first to admit that his ears were not what they once were and he felt it was time to retire (for other reasons too, heck the man is in his 70's and lived a very intense life/workaholic). So, in a way that's Mr. Martin. Yes, he put his signiture on several releases and reissues but he always seemed to have the best intentions at heart. For example, a lot of circles disagree with his choice to re-mix 2 Beatles albums for the CD releases. Well, he had his own personal reasons and it's not like he did as a marketing thing or just to show how clever he is (which some people sadly do). So let's give him a break. If not for him & his contributions to music (comedy, etc.) imagine how different our culture would be today.

Peter Mew is an engineer at Abbey Road (the place with the famous zebra crossing/cars must yield) who (now) works primarily with reissues and special reissue projects. According to his bio, he's been in the business at least for the last 40 years! He seems to be a workaholic and cares about what he's doing. A lot of us may not agree with his mastering beliefs & practices but that does not mean he's "past it" (actually, his methods are still considered the popular norm). So let's cut him a bit of slack. Maybe in time he'll discover he doesn't have to "doctor" tapes in the manner that he does.

Jon Astley is indeed deaf (only kidding) Again, he's working in a similar capacity as Peter Mew yet he's not a staffer at the place that has a studio No. 2. He's a guy (who is/was related to a famous mod by marriage/I wonder if Peter & Jon brought matching pillowcases? ) doing his job and believes in the methods he uses (and others seem to enjoy the results/even our hero George Harrison gave his seal of approval & apparently George was very forth-with & out-spoken about of his honest opinions, so if he didn't like the results, out the window). I think he cares about the quality of his work (even though Luke doesn't). So, let's drink a toast to him too (Bob, pour out the official Grey Goose).

Believe me (and we all know this), there are so many (and we're talking 96%) "bad" engineers/producers out there who are getting work (and destroying it). I'm talking about the folks who spell the Beatles "Beetles" because they can't understand why those old guys from Coney Island (who spoke funny) didn't know how to spell ("what are they stupid?"). These are the clowns who we should be weary of (most of the music available out there). Take it all with a grain of salt and a pint of Grey Goose...

Todd

 

Gary, I totally agree. It does come down to us and how much BS we are allowed to be spoon-fed. Yes, digital and all the bells/whistles is a much more cost-effective way of acheiving results but all that has nothing to do with us (only in degraded quality). It's about people maximizing more profit. If these savings by using these cost-effective tools had anything to do with us then the cost of a CD, movie, etc. would shoot down (but it isn't, only going up). If a building is made or restored (because it's falling down due to neglect) of cheap material will the owner charge less rent for this wonderful "modern" or "renovated" property?

Todd

 

As I recommended a long time ago, if you are a trucker's country fan, either as the only disc by Red Simpson you have or as a companion to the Razor & Tie best of, even though they both have lots of duplicates, buy the EMI UK twofer of Man Behind The Badge and Roll, Truck, Roll. Essential for all truck drivers country fans.

 

Gary,

This is so true.

Labels with product that fall into 'super saver', 'best price' or other what are considered budget lines consider price first when contemplating what to release.

I'm sure even Steve can find himself limited by what a 'gold' disc will sell for. In other words, how much time can be devoted to paying the expense involved with tracking down the proper tapes, the studio, the equipment, the packaging, the personnel, the time before it's not worth the expense even on items retailing at or near $30.

Of course, there are many variations on this theme and this is not the end of it, but it's a good place to start when discussing what gets released, how much money (and time) is devoted to upgrading the release, etc.

 

Gary & FM (saves typing),

Dead right again. Luckily, we have some choices out there and we're willing to pay a bit of a premuim to help keep them viable. Every "business" has to make money but IMO bad business is when it's only about that and quality & care are jusitfied out the window...

TF

 

Todd,

Correct.

Experience tells that it is also whoever is in charge at a given moment as to what direction a label will take.

I recall at one point there was a former Columbia VP (in manufacturing, I believe?) who nixed all bonus tracks, and, has anyone ever pondered why the Collectables label has gone gangbusters in reissuing all that product. An influx of monies or joint ventures?

What a business.

 

That's been a concern of mine for a while. The older we get the more hearing we loose. I guess as long as it sells they'll have their jobs. Shame.

 

Father,

Very true point! A CEO (or any other name for "top dog") of a company is like the president (in some cases dictator) of a tiny country. I guess they rule how they see fit and if they don't make the grade they get sent to Elba (a small island filled with many "yanked" music industry honchos/I bet the have one hell of a cocktail bar!)! Your statement holds true for even the smaller audiophile labels. Look at the ups and downs in direction MFSL went when there were thrown changes (and some were just so full of ****)...


Todd

 

Like any other business."It's who you know and who you owe".

 

NGEORGE writes: <<You have to admit listening to all these No-Noised CDs on the boom-box is exhilarating. Or, is it? >>

I doubt if you can tell the difference on a boom box.

Not that I'm defending them, but you'd be surprised. I once moved a friend's speakers from one up high, one down low on the other wall into a reasonable position for stereo listening, and she was flabberghasted! She'd never heard stereo before and had *no idea* she could hear it on her own system. She spent hours relistening to her old recordings.

 

Perhaps therein lies part of the problem. Not that these mastering guys are evil, incompetent or deaf, just that they haven't really heard everything that's happening with their work. Somebody recently posted an interview with Peter Mew, and, if I recall correctly, he seemed to be doing all his work on a couple of small studio monitors butted up against a wall on either side of a couple of computer monitors. He admitted freely that he sometimes let humongous bass go by unnoticed because his speakers couldn't reveal them (how could they, with their little 6" bass drivers?). HE may be aghast if someone were to play his CD's against old LP's if they were played for him on a properly set up LINN system (well, since they are in England). In the very good book GOOD SOUND, by Laura Dearborn, she comments on a story about some record execs playing a pressing of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon on some KEF speakers, and people being upset at hearing some foul language they'd been previously unaware of on this album. I can't hear Cedar De-Noise working on my small Mackie speakers at work unless it's obviously over done. I can't hear hiss on Steve's work on my home system with the almost constant white noise coming from the streets outside. Just a thought.

 

FWIW, Peter Mew worked at Abbey Rd in the late 60's. He is interviewed in David Parker's Lewishon type book about Syd's solo and PF sessions. He was an engineer and/or tape operator during the Madcap and Barrett LP sessions.

Chris