The Doors First Album - Wrong Speed!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by John B, Sep 10, 2002.

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  1. John B

    John B Once Blue Gort,<br>now just blue. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Steve,

    I took the liberty of borrowing your quote from another thread as I thought it very interesting. Plus, it was on another Stones thread and may have been missed by some.

    Let's hear the original mix at the original speed!!

    I have often wondered about this as I have to tune my guitar down slightly to play along. The question is why was it slowed down? In the case of When I'm Sixty Four which was sped up at the singer's request, that is THE VERSION. (Sure we'd love to hear the original speed for fun). If the engineers changed the speed accidentally or as an afterthought, let's put the original unadulterated tape out.

    If I like the overall impact, that would be the one I would listen to. Just my opinion of course. I don't have an emotional need to listen to a song the way "we've heard it since 1967", although I often prefer it that way.
     
  2. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Steve,

    I know you have a great relationship with the Doors camp. My suggestion is that you try to get this released. If they're worried about it creating any kind of confusion with the "standard" mainstream title, then just put it out on vinyl. I'm sure with your top-notch mastering (serving this tape rather than the "other" tape) this version (also marketed as being "different") would sell very well ("What? There are people out there who actually enjoy this type of stuff and would actually buy it? Really?)...

    Todd

    P.S. It would also be a nice service to give Doors listeners a chance to enjoy this...
     
  3. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    It could be marketed as a special limited edition. SACD hybrid. Something for the fans to experience without the intent of replacing what history has already burned into our brains.
     
  4. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    No, no, and no!!! :realmad: The digital camp has spoken.;)

    We want it too!:D
     
  5. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Yeah, sorry to be such a snob, but being a vinyl freak, I would rather this in hirez or 16 bit if anything... :/
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Yeah, how about all of who would like to hear the stuff in digital? The guys who don't have turntables will be left out.

    While you're at it Steve, see if you can convince the Doors capm one more time to put out those singles mixes. If it is a limited release, maybe they'll allow it.
     
  7. aashton

    aashton Here for the waters...

    Location:
    Gortshire, England
    John - thanks for bringing this out of the other thread - I sort of tuned out of the million post stones threads.

    I'd love to hear this no matter which of the mainstream formats it is released on (or even 30ips tape :) ). Put me down for a couple of copies :)

    All the best - Andrew
     
  8. John B

    John B Once Blue Gort,<br>now just blue. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Andrew,

    I have couriered the original master tape to you as I don't have time to make the copies myself. Please don't spill tea on them this time. I still haven't forgiven you for what you did to the multitracks of Surrealistic Pillow. :cool:
     
  9. aashton

    aashton Here for the waters...

    Location:
    Gortshire, England
    John - nobody told me that you weren't supposed to fold those 1 and 2 inch tapes to get them into my quarter inch machine - how was I to know.

    &ru
     
  10. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Of course I think it should be available as a CD or Hybrid also. I only mentioned vinyl only as a suggestion in case there was concern about any conflicts with the standard/original version. I think (only guessing of course) that this is a reason why the mono Dylan titles are vinyl only (available mainly for hard-core smaller percentage vinyl listeners/heck, I guess I'm one of them). Yes, the ultimate thing to do would be to have Steve master that tape for a limited vinyl & Hybrid release. I only fear that a hitch could be that "they" would want to release the standard album first on hi-rez (most likely DVD-A) with some fanfare to increase sales (that's why I was suggesting the vinyl "underground" approach). Steve, would any of the labels you're involved with currently be into funding a project like this? If it was cleared (heck, who knows?) I think this would be a major seller (profits can go towards other stuff). Hell, you can maybe throw in some of the singles from that period as bonus tracks (if the tapes still exist). When do we get started? :)

    Todd

    P.S. Andrew can be hired to consult on the project (we'll fly him in from the UK) but he isn't allowed near the tapes or any of the equipment!! :)
     
  11. Dawson

    Dawson New Member

    am I thinking clearly here?

    Years ago I found an old hammered, mildewed copy of the Doors first album in mono. Cleaned it up enough to play but not to keep. But I remember I didn't like the sound, it seemed faster than what I was used to. Could they have used a different tape to cut the mono versions our am I just going senile?

    Best!
     
  12. Vivaldinization

    Vivaldinization Active Member

    Re. When I'm Sixty Four, wasn't the tape slowed down for Paul's vocals and then played at normal speed? Or was the method suggested previously used? I ask because the Yellow Sub songtrack hit the pitch pretty much right on, and on the "slowed down" versions availible, the instruments sound somewhat off.

    -D
     
  13. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    I think for the mono mix of 'When I'm 64', it's just a case of speeding up the tape a bit to give it that "youthful, sweetness" thing (like what was done to 'Caroline No' on Pet Sounds). The stereo mix seems to be correct time. I'm still not sure which version (speed wise) I prefer...

    Todd
     
  14. John DeAngelis

    John DeAngelis Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Two thoughts:
    1. We deserve to hear what the Doors really sounded like while they recorded their first album. The true-speed version is a piece of musical history (we're talking over thirty five years ago!) that will make for a fascinating release.
    2. I cherish my first pressing mono copy of the first Doors lp. I think the mix is superior to the stereo, and I believe Steve is on record (no pun intended) as agreeing.
     
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    No, not me. I have not heard the mono mix in 20 years. The master tape is no more and my old Elektra mono album seems to have been mastered with filters on at 75 cycles and 8,000 cycles! Can't tell a thing from it.
     
  16. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Steve, is there at least a clean safety of the mono version of the album in existance (pre-LP eq)?

    Also, (this should maybe be a new thread/Gorts?) Sundazed is releasing a mono 'Surrealistic Pillow". I understand the master is no longer on this earth, so what did they use?

    Todd
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Todd, my two answers:


    No.

    Doesn't matter what they used if it sounds good!
     
  18. John B

    John B Once Blue Gort,<br>now just blue. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Dave,

    The original recording of When I'm Sixty Four was in the key of C. The tape was sped up (after everyting had been recorded) so it sounds in the key of C#. Paul wanted to sound more youthful - he had already reached an ancient 24!

    The Yellow Sub team went tp great trouble to match the pitches precisely (even when different pitches were used on seperate tracks of the multis - Lucy in the Sky).
     
  19. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    That's a shame about the mono mix being gone forever (and we'll never hear how good it could've been without the LP filtering). Is possible someone who was there during production has a pre-LP copy and they're unaware of having it (of course, most likely no)? It's just sad that some big chunks of music history are gone/MIA.

    I'm looking forward to this Sundazed release. I was just curious about what they could've used. I also can't wait for the mono 'Blonde On Blonde' that's coming out this month (hopefully)...
     
  20. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Gosh, he should have just retired at that age!! I wonder if he needed the support of his walker when he sang into the mike. Did he leave his teeth in a glass or trust the denture glue? Was he driving the engineers crazy in the control booth during playback when he kept asking every 5 minutes "Turn it up Sonny, eh?? Not the music, the heat! You kiddies just don't understand. Youth is wasted on the young!" And I bet Lennon was sitting in his chair, rocking back and forth, clutching his cane, holding an un-lit cigar, nodding "Yep, they got spunk but they're ****-for-brains..."

    Todd
     
  21. John B

    John B Once Blue Gort,<br>now just blue. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Even then he was not half the man he used to be. ;)
     
  22. Cousin It

    Cousin It Senior Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Can someone explain to me why Elektra would dump a Doors mono master and keep Love's mono masters when the Doors were obviously the bigger band ?? What could have been their reasoning and this coming from a Love fan. BTW I saw an review in this month's Record Collector mag for an Elektra reissue of the Four Sail album.
     
  23. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    It could have been holding the vault door open. Maybe someone needed something heavy enough to keep the newspapers from flying around in the office, and the lot was thrown away accidentally.

    Heck. I don't wanna know. :(
     
  24. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    When McCartney finally turns 64, he's got to pen a song called "When I Was 24!"
     
  25. Stax Fan

    Stax Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Bob Irwin claims the original full-track masters were used for the Sundazed mono release of "Surrealistic Pillow". He also claims the multi-tracks still exist.
    As for the "true-speed" version of the Doors' debut LP, I'm probably the only one here who doesn't want it! I like the one I've always heard. I'm afraid hearing it faster will forever affect how I perceive the released version. I guess it depends on your definition of historical accuracy. For me, it's what was originally released. I think once it's released, it's set in stone.
     
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