The "DSD Revolution" Still Coming, or a Bust?

really wish Sony would release the copyrights so that companies can make drives to read and rip SACDs' high res layer.

 

Vinyl may always be my main stay, but I have tasted the DSD digital waters and they are truly fine by me.
I even find little fault in the DSD transferred to vinyl examples we've heard. Not a fan of most Redbook and wouldn't pay for it.
The industry needs to quit F***ING around, get serious, and start making discs. For I would gladly spend my hard earned dollars to have them.
Politics and market strategies aside, I hope it is not a bust, but it doesn't look too promising in the short term.
In so many ways, for a music lover and HiFi guy, the whole digital thing continues to be just a mess IMHO. Geez, this is frustrating!

 

Most Redbook I listen to (rock, classical, some jazz) sounds great. The format isn't the problem, nor is the fact it's 16-bit.

Neither is the saviour DSD or any other hi-res functionality. It is the mastering.

Anyone thinking that because it's on DSD it'll beat Redbook should listen to the Genesis SACDs. The 76-82 blue box especially. F***ed doesn't begin to cover it whether it's the SACD layer, the dts, the straight stereo.

It proves that format alone counts for nothing but the implementation of the mastering, and earlier production will.

Then go and listen to the Redbook "Diament" US Atco version of A Trick of the Tail. The difference and quality is glaringly obvious and the Redbook canes it.

 

+100.

As a matter of fact, the higher resolution formats may be WORSE if the mastering is horrible. It will expose it that much more.

 

I concede, the format is not the solution. Yet I have heard literally thousands of Redbook CDs I can't listen to, and many SACDs that sound just fine.

I would agree, little can be spoken of, as an absolute.

 

Just remember to study very hard on what you find as in "know the source" and you should be fine!

 

Well, a format that 99% of music consumers can't even playback on their systems is sorta D.O.A., especially when whatever "benefits" it provides are questionable at best.

There's no question DSD provides benefits for content distributors - it's virtually impossible to copy it, particularly off SACD, and even if you did, there's no large community to bother sharing it with. But consumers have proven resistant to that particular "benefit"...

 

You actually have it totally in reverse. Over the past year, even I have been surprised by how many DSD capable non audiophile components have hit the market. All the
Denon and Marantz mid level on up A/V receivers do DSD, as do the Oppos, and even the lowly $180 iFI Nano iDSD. The cost of getting in is very low.

Where "99%" enters the picture is that 99% of all recorded music is NOT in DSD and never will be despite what the delusional cheerleaders say. It is chicken before egg my friend.

 

I think the problem it was a solution to is the expiration of the patent for the CD. If Sony hadn't won their next format war (Blu Ray), I'm not sure Sony as we think of them today would still be around.

 

It's patents, not copyrights, and I think Sony is adverse to that whole idea. More than 15 years ago, when SACD was planned, the whole concept was to avoid all the mistakes made with CD. And that includes no ripping, providing much higher audio quality, a better jewel box, more built-in CD Text, and longer playing time. They're not about to give away technology for any reason at this point.

Yep, I think this is the absolute truth. Bad mastering will kill the results of any audio format -- high-res, low-res, compressed, uncompressed, anything. I think a lot of people compare SACD releases to CDs and assume the SACD sounds better because of the format, and they don't consider it was most likely mastered from a completely different source, by a different person, in a different studio.

 

Not so sure about that. My amp handles DSD from my Blu-ray player and without covering to PCM. The amp's an Onkyo TX-NR818, the player is a Marantz UD7007, so we're not talking high end price tags here.

 

I don't assume, I listen...

 

It's a major indictment of the format that you can't copy it and give it to other people?

 

Onkyo is the best little secret out there in terms of sound quality. I'm getting a tx-nr828 soon. Great sound with stunning beauty and looks with out the high price tags of so called Audiophile priced equipment, and yes it will do up to double DSD.

 

Problem is, those receivers and DVD players constitute maybe 5% of the overall market, and that's apparently a peak from a few years ago, when pretty much only the ultra-high end supported DSD. At this pace it would literally take decades for DSD hardware penetration to reach any kind of critical mass. Not gonna happen.

It's a major indictment that I can pay $20 and up for copies of music in some obscure format and not do with it whatever the h*ll I please, unlike a $.99 track from iTunes.

Not just fail, but EPIC fail. No pun intended...

 

How is this a "problem"? If someone who wants a machine that can play SACD can get one, who cares what the market share is?

 

5% of the market? You pulled that number out of thin air. As I said, many manufacturers are including DSD in their A/V products by DEFAULT, it is not an expensive add on.

Again, the problem is the reverse. It is not a hardware problem, it is a software problem.

 

I'm sure that DSD downloads will survive and do well. I'm helping that cause out. NativeDSD has the best in DSD going right now.

 

Good shout, although, if you're after the version of Audyssey that's in the 818, then that's the one to go for as the 828 was a step back in spec. Think you need to go to the one above the 828 to get the 818 equivalent. You might land a NOS 818 however and it'll be cheaper by far since the 838 is out now. If it's important to you but if not, I'm sure the 828 will be fine. It enjoyed a good review in Hi Fi World last year and they've got some good experience with Onkyo AV amps.

 

While Sony and Philips haven't released the encryption to decode DSD, the Internet is awash in completely digital DSD rips in the form of SACD ISO files. You can thank the Sony PS3 for that treasure trove.

 

I'm not so sure the UD7007 is pure DSD. Another thread discussed this and I see no mention of pure DSD by Marantz.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/marantz-ud7007-vs-oppo-bdp105-for-2-channel.337376/

 

The 7007 sends the DSD via HDMI to the amp. The 818 decodes it and the display readout shows DSD (as it does when it shows PCM, or FLAC, or MP3, or WAV, etc, etc...).

It's listed on this product spec PDF from Marantz. See the Multichannel section on the second page:-

http://www.marantz.co.uk/DocumentMaster/UK/UD7007_EN_02-XL.pdf

 

Did a little more digging and you're right! And it looks like it can even play 2ch .DSF files from USB. Nice!

 

They're even cheaper nowadays....

Pioneer's new VSX-1124 HT receiver does DSD (using same DACs as Oppo 105) and was on sale at Best Buy for under $400.00. It was on the cover of last month's Sound and Vision

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-vsx-1124-av-receiver

 

That looks like great value….