The Godfather: Should Michael have ordered the hit on Fredo? *

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by misterclean, Mar 28, 2017.

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  1. Mr. Grieves

    Mr. Grieves Forum Resident

    Christ I wanted so bad for him to say that he was gonna swear off that lifestyle, as it clearly wasn't for him. But it was clear that Fredo wasn't about to do that. He had something to prove.

    Seriously though, Michael was cold as ice
     
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  2. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    If Sonny had lived he would have been the head of the family because he was the OLDEST son and Fredo would have probably accepted this. Michael probably would have become Senator Corleone or Governor Corleone as his father wished.

    Michael was the YOUNGEST son and when he became head of the family Fredo probably came to resent that he had been passed over.

    The tragedy of Michael was that he knew better and wanted to do good. Remember the scene added to Part 2 when he thinks about all of them waiting for the father to come home on his birthday on the night of Dec. 7, 1941. Sonny says "we only risk our lives for the family". Michael announces he joined the Marines. Fredo congratulates Michael and Sonny slaps Fredo saying "Go ahead...encourage him". Michael looks at Sonny and says "This is OUR country".

    Michael was educated. He was, in the beginning, idealistic. He shared with his father Don Vito's calm, steady, and deliberate manner. But he did share his father's old world sense of justice. Remember when Don Vito said that the men who raped and beat up the mortician's daughter should be severely beaten but not killed as the daughter was not killed.

    Michael's subsequent ruthlessness was AMERICAN. His quest for absolute power was American. He combined the worst of the old world with the worst of the new. And the tragedy was even then he still knew better. In 1958 Cuba when he sees Castro's men die in a suicide bombing Roth downplays it telling him they can't win. Michael replies he's not so sure and echoing Sonny's remark on Dec. 7 tells Roth..."We only risk our lives for money...they're willing to die for a CAUSE".
     
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  3. All this may be true, yet if Michael let Fredo live he would have been perceived as "weak" and been taken out by an enemy or one of his own guys. He had already started down the path of self destruction years before he wacked Fredo.
     
  4. misterclean

    misterclean Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    If Fredo had lived, somebody would have gotten to him eventually. Despite his apparent good-nature, in his heart, he was always going to resentful of the fact that he was passed over as head of the family, and he was always going to be susceptible to outside influences. I suppose that Michael could have (possibly) retired in order to keep him alive, but otherwise, what other choice did he have?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
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  5. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe
    John Cazale delivers the 'I'm smart' speech superbly. Cazale may give the best performance in the Godfather ll (against formidable competition) because he brings out the pitiable humanity in a weak character (who knows he's weak and despises himself for it, yet can't change).

    At the end, Michael emerges as a tragic villain, very much in the Macbeth mould, a man whose personal circumstances prevent him from using his gifts as they should be used. The final tableau of him lost in thought on the deserted Corleone estate speaks volumes.
     
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  6. misterclean

    misterclean Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    John Cazale was awesome. He left us way too soon.
     
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  7. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe
    And to answer the question in the thread title: had Michael not ordered the hit on Fredo, it would have been tantamount to advertising his weakness to the world. If Fredo had been corrupted once, there was every chance that he could be so again, so Michael was faced with a binary choice - do it and be safe, or let Fredo live and allow him to become a conduit for an assassin. I find it even more chilling, somehow, that he waited until their mother had died before authorising Fredo's death (while appearing to embrace him and welcome him back into the fold -a classic Michael moment).
     
  8. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe
    Superb in Dog Day Afternoon, too.
     
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  9. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco es Cultura

    Location:
    Virginia
    Let's not overthink this one. Fratricide?

    No.
     
  10. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe
    I don't think Michael is wholly unsympathetic in Godfather ll. Yes, he does terrible things and at the end, he WINS (although it's a pyrrhic victory), for which we can't forgive him. But just consider what he's up against - having to negotiate his way around reptiles like Hyman Roth, trying to realise his goal of making the Corleone family 'legitimate' while being prevented from doing so by the situation he has inherited, trying to keep his family together (and failing). His life affords him no space to unclench or relax: it's impossible to wade through those waters without sacrificing at least some of your humanity. Yes, by the end he's a monster but he KNOWS he's a monster and is unhappy with the knowledge. He's a tragic figure.
     
  11. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Boy.... the Godfather movies are just like the current Kim family in North Korea! Younger son becomes ruler of "the family".... older son is kind of profligate.... Younger son has older son killed off..... Unfortunately and sadly for the Korean people, the North Korean situation, as absurd as it is, is real, while the Godfather movies were just a fictional story.....
     
  12. Sam

    Sam Senior Member

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I don't think even the mafia would think someone is "weak" if they don't kill their brother.
     
  13. Sam

    Sam Senior Member

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    So kill him, right? Ahhhh, he's only a brother. Sorry, but they portray Michael to be a very smart and shrewd person in this movie. I would like to think another path for Fredo was possible. But that was the storyline---to show how utterly ruthless and STUPID someone can be when power corrupts them.
     
  14. Mr. Grieves

    Mr. Grieves Forum Resident

    Michael was a lot of things. Stupid isn't one of them.
     
  15. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    No! But they were in the "family". I'm not.
     
  16. Sam

    Sam Senior Member

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I had forgotten that he had passed away. Never knew he died before The Deer Hunter was released and that he was dating Meryl Streep. Sad. Great actor.
     
  17. Edgard Varese

    Edgard Varese Royale with Cheese

    Location:
    Te Wai Pounamu
    Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make in an earlier post. The whole "pecking order" thing in families at that time (and of that ethnicity) was strong indeed. Fredo would never have betrayed Sonny, but he was resentful about being shuffled off to the side and Michael put in charge, hence the betrayal.
     
  18. Well that plus mobsters tend to kill people to solve their problems.
     
  19. EddieMann

    EddieMann I used to be a king...

    Location:
    Geneva, IL. USA.
    You know, Fredo was no bargain to Don Vito either. Sitting on the curb fumbling his gun while his father takes 4 or 5 slugs in the back.
     
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  20. Grunge Master

    Grunge Master 8 Bit Enthusiast

    Location:
    Michigan
    I always thought that Vito knew what Michael would do, which is get revenge on everyone; Vito swore that he wouldn't seek revenge, and technically he didn't, since Michael was in charge. In the book Vito asks Michael if his plans are ready, and Michael says "yes, and even if you told me not to go through with it, I would leave the family", or something to that effect. So I think it was a case of, Vito (since he was teaching Michael about how to be the head of the family) knew what conclusion Michael would eventually come to, and that's why he needed Michael as head of the family as soon as possible.
     
  21. Since I'm responding to post #10 perhaps someone has already mentioned this, but Fredo's outburst during his conversation with Michael perhaps sealed his fate - he was full of hubris about how smart he supposedly was, didn't show much contrition, and thus demonstrated that he clearly posed a continued threat if another rival to the Corleones gave him the opportunity to play the role of a big shot.
     
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  22. Cheepnik

    Cheepnik Overfed long-haired leaping gnome

    I've softened on it, but one of the many ways I was disappointed in GF3 was in how Anthony (Michael and Kay's son) turned out to be this brilliant young man. Law school? An opera career? He was essentially catatonic in GF2, and would probably have been diagnosed on the autism spectrum as a youngster now. I foresaw him following his uncle Fredo's path if anyone's -- a quiet, simple kid who would always need taking care of.
     
  23. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    Not just another rival, but the cops. If he could kill Michael, he could rat him out.
     
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  24. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe
    Yep, that was uninteresting (and not very credible) character development.
     
  25. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    Would you guys rather kill your own brother, or abandon the family business?
     
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