The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    But there are good reasons for this. AFAIK, AudioNote is the only current manufacturer to not use oversampling or even a reconstruction filter. With R2R "ladder" DAC's, even though the datastream is not converted to PWM as it is for DAC's using delta-sigma convertors or FGPA technology, there are still digital filters pre digital-to-analog conversion which changes ("throws away"?) the actual data stream. As far as PWM (or DSD), many top digital engineers and designers think this results in better sound anyway; HQ Player (a highly regarded computer music playback software) can convert everything to DSD512, which many listeners think is the best sounding setting available in that player.
     
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  2. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    So yesterday morning I strongly enjoyed the first 1/3 of 6/14/76

    I came to a natural stopping point after T Jed and will be picking it up this evening starting with the 20 minute PITB. Can't wait. :)

    I can't stop listening to Todd. Sorry guys. :D
     
  3. bzfgt

    bzfgt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Todd Rundgren?
     
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  4. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Resident

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    1060 W.Addison
    Yes I should have been clearer and said non-decoding of HDCD with peak extend in use for those Neil examples. I agree we should note/remember there is a difference between HDCD as implemented by Norman without peak extend as you explained well, and then the same HDCD light showing but with peak extend implemented, perhaps more often found when analyzing the files if not discerned by ear.

    I very recently tried my first GD hi res against its CD with 5-8-77 and I don't get a sense of a HDCD penalty in this case, just mastering differences related to dynamic range, both being good with different qualities.
     
  5. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pemberwick, CT
    I presumed that's what he meant, I noticed he has a Todd Rundgren thread going right now.

    But it took me a bit to figure it out, I'm not on a first name basis with Todd.
     
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  6. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    Could you or someone else explain a bit more about how this reliably establishes that HDCD is non-functional and therefore a useless feature of the May '77 set? These DIY digital audio testing tools are way beyond my ability to understand or verify independently.

    I continue to ask because— for example — on Jeffrey Norman's website the May '77 box is described as "Sourced from the Betty Cantor-Jackson soundboard recordings, transferred by Plangent Processes / Mastered in HDCD by Jeffrey Norman."

    And I have trouble wrapping my head around the idea that Norman is either knowingly participating in an extended campaign of false advertising about Dead HDCD sound quality, or somehow doesn't understand that the HDCD encoding doesn't actually function properly on all these releases.
     
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  7. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    I will be able to listen closer to Tom Hamilton at the next JRAD show since the first one was the first one for me. I loved the concert but I was in no way keyed in to the two different guitarists in any serious way as I was more just experiencing the groove, the vibe and the overall experience. I’d love to go twice in January but right now it’s just Saturday night 1/13/18.
     
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  8. US Blues

    US Blues Forum Resident

    Schiit Audio's DACs preserve the original data stream and use medical/military grade DAC chips that were not designed for audio reproduction. They also use a different filtering system to preserve time/phase relationships so spatial cues are fully reproduced.
     
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  9. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag Your Ad Here

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    San Francisco
    It was a good night. Phil even varied the Donor Rap a bit and said how he was so lucky to playing with musicians of a high caliber, and I'm sure he was referencing what TH was doing. That's my take anyway.
     
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  10. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Or a comp, possibly.
     
  11. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    He knows exactly what he is doing, and why. You can email him at

    jn@mockingbirdmastering.com

    BTW, these aren't "DIY digital audio testing tools". They are pro or semi-pro digital audio editors, with for the most part the same audio processing plug-ins that most audio engineers use.

    more info on HDCD

    High Definition Compatible Digital - Wikipedia
     
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  12. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    Hmmm, quoting advertising copy as technical information :cool:

    Schitt's DAC's are great stuff, but so are DAC's from many, many other manufacturers
     
  13. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    In fact I went ahead and emailed Jeffrey Norman earlier today and outlined everything I've been reading about inconsistent HDCD execution on Dead releases, the results people are reporting using foobar 2000 and dBpoweramp etc., and the question of "peak extension," and asked him for his take given the consistent marketing and labeling of Dead CDs as HDCD-enhanced products.

    I'll report back if and when I get a response.
     
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  14. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    They are not "HDCD enhanced" products. The vast majority of CD's labelled with the HDCD logo don't use Peak Extension or Low Level expansion; that doesn't mean they aren't "HDCD" (patent owned by Microsoft, BTW), just that they sound the same whether or not they are played on a machine with HDCD decoding. HDCD is merely a "flag" put into the LSB once every few seconds, which turns on the HDCD decoder in players which have it. Players like earlier (than the BDP-20x players) Oppo's could manually turn HDCD on or off, and for HDCD's without the 2 volume expansion features, the disc sounds the same with the decoder on or off.
     
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  15. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    That's the guy! :)
     
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  16. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    I guess I’m not sure if you’re saying Dead HDCD discs are achieving some things but not others, on a case-by-case basis; or that it’s a mastering approach that has its usefulness in production but not in playback; or that it’s some kind of useless holdover that is essentially a scam, something that should be discarded in the name of truth in packaging. I’m honestly confused about what you’re telling me about the dozens of HDCD Dead CDs on my shelves that I’ve acquired over nearly two decades.

    I’m asking as a non-engineer who back in the day bought not one but two HDCD players (Denon and Oppo) in large part to listen to Grateful Dead releases!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  17. scribbs

    scribbs Well-Known Member

    Location:
    US
    HDCD talk? Am I having a flashback?
     
  18. ThirdBowl

    ThirdBowl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    12/1/79 - 18 minute Sugaree. Sick.
     
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  19. US Blues

    US Blues Forum Resident

    I was at work and didn't have time to find anything technical. Question for you: how many DAC's on the market keep the original data?
     
  20. bzfgt

    bzfgt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Scribbs, who is that in the avatar? It's killing me because I feel like I recognize her yet maybe I do not.
     
  21. bzfgt

    bzfgt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Lene Lovich I think
     
  22. ThirdBowl

    ThirdBowl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Loser - 12/1/79 - Pretty smokin' but not up there with some of the all-time versions. What are some of the all-time versions? Good question son! I have a hard time making such lists but the kind folks around here are usually quite helpful.
     
  23. bzfgt

    bzfgt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    3/24/1990
     
  24. SBegonias17

    SBegonias17 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Listened to set 1 of 10/31/85 today. Yowzers that's a fun first set. Everyone is having a great time, the setlist is great and unique. One of those shows that must have been an absolute blast to be at. Don't know if I'll get to set 2 tonight, but set 1 was really enjoyable.
     
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  25. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag Your Ad Here

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I should listen to this because I can't say I've ever heard an '85 show that blew me away. That said, I've only listened to a few from that year.

    So are they ever going to work out a thing where they can make cassette masters sound really good? I depend heavily on official releases for my Dead listening, and maybe this is why there's a space in the 80s I'm simply not familiar with.
     

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