The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. KCWhistle

    KCWhistle Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    I don't think a little fear is unreasonable (and it's probably at the root of any "offended" reaction). I've struggled for years to get into jazz in the way that I perceive jazz enthusiasts to be "into jazz," and maybe I never will. But I take it as an encouraging sign that I'm finally struggling less with Grateful Dead jams than I did for a very long time. (Taking in lots of '73 second sets has helped.) Maybe there's hope for me yet.

    Ultimately, it's a process, we're all on a continuum, and we can adjust our placement on said continuum with some desire and effort.

    EDIT: But yes, the idea that one has to be high to listen to the Dead's more out-there excursions is dumb. It says far more about the person who has that idea than it does about anyone else.
     
  2. track11

    track11 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    That (db.etree.0rg) certainly seems like the most crucial step. Regarding the archive, there seem to be only a couple folks credited as uploading the majority of shows to the archive (Jonathan Aizen and Matthew Vernon, for example).
     
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  3. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Evil Twin

    Yeah, ok that was my 2nd most disagreed with.

    In particular the 'you must be high if you like this' angle that @KCWhistle mentions.

    I bought Philosophy and the Grateful Dead and one of the essays is about how space has no musical value. Like objectively. Once I get around to reading it I'll try to sum it up and see what the philosophers on the board (outnumbered only by the lawyers, it seems,) think of it.
     
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  4. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Really the best way to experience avant-garde jazz is to experience it live in a small room. If you ever get out towards NYC look me up and I’ll introduce you to some of the best of the best:)
     
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  5. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Cat Juggler

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Yes they did. Probably the best show I saw in ‘94 (note that I did not see any of the Fall ‘94 east coast tour).
     
  6. mw1917

    mw1917 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albany, NY USA
    You're probably familiar with this story, but in 1987, Phil invited Ornette Coleman to a Dead show at Madison Square Garden. Ornette brought Cecil Taylor with him, and they were amazed that the massive audience didn't bolt for the exits during "Space." "If this audience can get into what they're doing, maybe they can get into what we're doing."
     
  7. scribbs

    scribbs Resident Mockery

    Location:
    US
    I think much of the process is automated now, but I could be wrong. I do know that a lot of thought and planning and time was put into the initial massive importing of sources. Gosh, it's been a good ten years since I discussed the process with Matt and most of that is gone from my memory now. I recall, in the very early days, a phone conversation with Matt about this huge endeavor, about how to split up responsibility, parse source info, etc. I knew at the outset that I would not have the time to dedicate to gettting in the trenches with him and the rest of these fine folks. I do recall that the initial vision was to always have "the best" source for a particular show available, not unlike Lesh's idea for a one-stop concert repository. It really is a beautiful thing we have here.
     
  8. bzfgt

    bzfgt Interesting and Copacetic Denizen

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Definitely the best show I saw in '94 (I only saw that and the night before though!).
     
  9. bzfgt

    bzfgt Interesting and Copacetic Denizen

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I just listened to Other One>Comes a Time from 7/21/72, which was one of those Download Series things. Man, that stuff is red hot! Really excellent versions, I can't remember being as excited about them in the past but who knows what I was thinking or feeling like then...
     
  10. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    They and you all could but one must listen fully to have a chance.

    “Sampling” and “trying out” bits & pieces of someone like Cecil Taylor doesn’t work. Fwiw IMO Cecil’s music is just about the most difficult of all post 1960 free jazz/avant-garde music.

    Even Joe Maneri and his microtonal improvising is an easier nut to crack than Cecil Taylor’s Unit music of the 70’s & 80’s - let alone his awesome European Large ensemble from the late 80’s. Great but 65 minute continuous sets of 16 musicians playing seemingly different improvised music full bore is not an easy entrance point:(
     
  11. jazz_case

    jazz_case Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colfax
    Looking at deadlists for the 94 Vegas shows and scrolling down I am reminded just how strange the following Shoreline run was. I don't think Bill Graham would've let them get away without an encore on a Friday and Saturday night, but who knows.
     
  12. scribbs

    scribbs Resident Mockery

    Location:
    US
    Samba in the Rain was the highlight of my last show on 12/16/94.
     
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  13. pbuzby

    pbuzby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    The Compendium reviews claim there was no encore due to venue curfew, but if I recall right McNally's book claimed it was due to a fight between Weir and the drummers where Weir claimed they were rushing the tempo.
     
  14. mw1917

    mw1917 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albany, NY USA
    Maybe not, but as both an audience member and musician in this music, I've been surprised many times over at how accepting audiences can be, regardless of the level of difficulty they're presented with.
     
  15. posnera

    posnera Forum Resident

    Based on current performances, I’d say Weir won that argument.
     
  16. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Yes I agree within a Live condition when it’s difficult or uncomfortable to get up & leave. I can’t tell you how many times my wife “wanted” to leave during the first 10 or 15 minutes of a set (sometimes the whole set but not often). Her experience is that 2 things happen:

    1) her ears or her mind starts getting accustomed or “used to”
    the music which is fundamentally different that what she (or 99% of music listeners) is “used to”.

    And

    2) the band (who are made up of predominantly or all world class musicians who specialize in improvised music and have been playing music of that sort for many years or even decades in some cases) gels and plays all-world creatively inspired improvised music as only a relative small number of musicians are capable of playing.
     
  17. track11

    track11 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    X 1,000. Absolutely without equal.
     
  18. budwhite

    budwhite Så länge skutan kan gå

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    78-05-13
    Bertha-> Good Lovin', Terrapin Station-> Playin' In The Band-> Drums-> Truckin'-> Black Peter-> Sugar Magnolia, E: One More Saturday Night

    78-05-16
    Scarlet Begonias-> Fire On The Mountain, El Paso, Ship of Fools, Estimated Prophet-> He's Gone-> Drums-> Comes A Time-> Sugar Magnolia, E: Johnny B. Goode

    78-05-17
    Samson & Delilah, Friend Of The Devil, Dancin' In The Streets-> Drums-> Terrapin Station-> Not Fade Away-> Around & Around, E: Werewolves of London

    As someone stated earlier, '78 is great summer music.
     
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  19. pbuzby

    pbuzby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Apparently in the last year or so of the GD they used a click track live. I don't know if the fight had something to do with it.
     
  20. budwhite

    budwhite Så länge skutan kan gå

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    Space>Comes a time 78-05-16

    Stunning. Last performance was exactly one year before. And then only played once in '79 before seven times in '80. And in '85 is was resurrected once again, and played somewhat more regulary.
     
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  21. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Cat Juggler

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I had heard that the lack of encores was due to local noise ordinance cut off times, but have never seen that completely verified.
     
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  22. fishcane

    fishcane Forum Resident

    Location:
    clay,ny
    Checking out the new 50th Anthem release... Live show sounds great.

    I picked up the Cd set for the live release and the Picture disc LP for completion sake.

    Extra bonus points for the Lenticular 3d cover. It really works on this one...very cool
     
  23. bzfgt

    bzfgt Interesting and Copacetic Denizen

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Listened to 3/24/73 Truckin'>Dark Star...about as I remembered, the jam meanders a bit, then a really solid Spanish Jam...
     
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  24. ducksdeluxe

    ducksdeluxe Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile

    Location:
    Salem,OR
    There is an 11PM curfew there to this day. GIYF. I remember hearing about many noise complaints in the early days of the landfill.
     
  25. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Cat Juggler

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Well, I knew how to look it up if I really wanted to, but some things aren't that important. I didn't really care about verifying.
     
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