The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Yeah it's tough to have a panoramic view of one, I hear you. I just listen to them over and over...and I still can't arrive at an image of most of them, anyway. It's funny how the mind remembers sequential things....you'd think to remember something is to replay it in your mind or something but it really can't work like that. Even think of a short song you know and remember well. What exactly are you thinking when you remember it? I mean, not if you go through the whole thing in your mind, but if you're just thinking about, say, "David Watts" or something, in a general way. You feel like you have an idea of the song, but what exactly is that? With a lengthy, varied Dark Star it's even more mysterious, and of course much more difficult to arrive at that thing, whatever it in fact is....
     
    ianuaditis and brew ziggins like this.
  2. JRM

    JRM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    bzfgt, adamos and budwhite like this.
  3. KeninDC

    KeninDC Hazy Cosmic Jive

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    8/31/1979. Dire Wolf. Loser. Peggy-O. Althea. Shakedown Street. Deal. Estimated>Eyes. A slow burn Black Peter. Set lists don't necessarily dictate a show's quality, but this one really cooked last night.
     
    Crispy Rob, trd, adamos and 5 others like this.
  4. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    Sure. There's no reason you should listen to something out of "obligation" if you don't enjoy it. I mean, heck, I was *at* the 7/8/90 View from the Vault show and I never watch that fricken video.

    Now the 7/12/90 "Dark Star", on the other hand... it's available as filler on View from the Vault II. It might be interesting to watch that back-to-back with Sunshine Daydream. At least it would be more of an apples-to-apples comparison.
     
  5. KCWhistle

    KCWhistle Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    That might have been me, as 5-6 months ago I was going through the fall '73 releases and wasn't blown away by 11/14, and said so. But that was relative to the Winterland box and Dick's 19 before that, and with the knowledge that the Denver RT was coming up soon, not to mention Dave's 5 and (good lord) Dick's 14, both of which were new to me. And the second set of 11/14 is really cool, with one of those fun Other Ones with a Big River in the middle of it. I'm certainly glad to have that show.

    Every time @US Blues suggests a Complete Fall '73 box, I want to throw my money at him (and hope he'll send it to Dave L.).

    If the GD Movie Soundtrack was where I finally found the answer to the question, "Why do people get so excited about live Grateful Dead music?" the Winterland box answered the natural follow-up: "Why do so many people insist on full shows?"
     
  6. GuidedByJonO)))

    GuidedByJonO))) Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston
    I took the Amtrak from Chicago to New Orleans at 17, that was a great trip. I enjoyed it a whole lot, but that may have been colored just as much by the girl I met on the train than just the scenery.
     
    Crispy Rob, adamos, US Blues and 2 others like this.
  7. Phoenician

    Phoenician Resident Forum

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Using this as a jumping-off point: I've been listening to my road trip playlist that I didn't get to use on my road trip (thanks to the lousy Harman Kardon interface in the rental car), and I've recently reheard 10-26-89, 3-29-90, and 9-20-90. Based on the whopping sample size of 3, I'm going to say they don't hold up as Dark Stars. As exploratory music somewhere between PITB and Space, yes, they're enjoyable. As honest-to-Gort hyperluminous blue giant Dark Stars full of improv and back and forth musical conversations, they're lacking.

    I'll have to listen to 7/12/90 and see if it makes me think differently. But at this point, I'd almost rather see a long PITB in the setlist rather than a brown dwarf Dark Star.

    Which is a very long and roundabout way of saying I see why Dick went with 9-16-90 for Pick 9 rather than 9-20.
     
    budwhite likes this.
  8. scribbs

    scribbs Resident Mockery

    Location:
    Surf City USA
    Oh, no. He said "Take 5" jam. A few of us on DNC had a running joke about the Take 5 jams we would find scattered throughout the band's career. It's not Take 5 at all, of course, but we didn't know what else to call it. There's some discussion about it here: Grateful Dead Guide: The Dead Quote Coltrane

    Some people say they hear the band quoting Brubeck's Take Five here and there. Here, for instance, is one brief example of Phil playing a similar line briefly, at 7:45 in this Other One:
    gd72-09-23.sbd.jeffm.2201.sbeok.shnf
    (There are probably better examples as this one is only 15 seconds or so, but it's the first one I could find.) Phil does this line a lot in various Truckin'/Other One jams in '72, but it's probably more of a rhythmic nudge than a Take Five quote. (For one, it's in 6/8 time.)

    In '76, often Keith would set the rhythm for the transition jams between songs, in a way that was unique to that year. One riff he'd play was very similar to the Take Five piano - you can hear it coming after Eyes of the World on 7/17/76, and here he leads the way after 1:40 in track 18, the jam before Comes a Time:
    gd76-10-03.sbd-aud.cotsman.12832.sbeok.shnf
    But one listener notes: "I think the '76 jam would have to be called 'take 8' rather than 'take 5' though, because the phrase Keith is playing does use a lot of the same intervals and syncopated rhythm as Brubeck's comp in Take 5, but it is a longer phrase that fits into a standard 4/4 meter rather than the asymmetrical time signature that gives Take 5 its name. It's like Keith took the line and put a couple more beats in the middle to even it out to fit with the existing pulse the drummers are playing."
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
    Crispy Rob, Archtop, adamos and 4 others like this.
  9. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    I'll be curious to hear what you think. I've long thought 7/12/90 was one of the most "exploratory" modern Dark Stars, but I'm biased because I was at that show. Other versions worth checking out (IMO) are 4-1-91 and 9-26-91.
     
    ianuaditis likes this.
  10. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    This thread makes me realize that I don't have Africa/Brass in my collection for some reason. I'll have to remedy that.
     
  11. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    Interesting article... thanks. I'm a little surprised that they didn't mention "A Love Supreme". Phil clearly quotes that bassline (and vocal line) on 12-26-79 (I think it's pre or post Estimated, as I recall), and there are at least one or two other shows through the years where Phil clearly plays that "A Love Supreme, A Love Supreme" melody.
     
    Crispy Rob and bzfgt like this.
  12. JRM

    JRM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
  13. Crush87

    Crush87 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Wow you weren't kidding. This recording is pretty limp. Waiting for it to kick in later.
    Weird because Kidd did a masterful job at Winterland days before
     
    US Blues likes this.
  14. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Someone (here?) found Keith quoting it, I think in 1976....maybe 77. I am pretty sure it is post-Estimated, unless it's the 79 one you say but I am sure it was Keith in this instance.
     
    ianuaditis and uzn007 like this.
  15. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    All in 73 Dead last few days - more from the PNW box plus now digging in again to RT 4.3 (11/20/73 with bonus Truckin’>TOO>Stella from 11/21/73). Wolf sounds way better than the Alligator did in June 73.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  16. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    Listen to the bass after Kidd flips the magic switch on 14 Nov, then go back and listen to how the bass was recorded at the Winterland run.
     
  17. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    Riding on the City of New Orleans,
    Illinois Central Monday morning rail
    Fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders,
    Three conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail.

    Good morning America how are you?
    Don't you know me I'm your native son,
    I'm the train they call The City of New Orleans,
    I'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done.
     
  18. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    in the comments:
    LIA:
    An alert listener found another Coltrane quote - at the end of Let It Grow on 6/12/76, Keith plays the main theme of 'A Love Supreme' for the last 90 seconds or so. It doesn't really turn into a jam, though - more like a repeated tease - the band doesn't take it anywhere. I'm not sure if Keith played it on purpose or just found the riff accidentally...


    AnonymousOctober 13, 2016 at 2:47 PM
    Phil also quotes A Love Supreme in the jam out of Estimated Prophet on 12/26/79, labeled "Jam 1" on Dick's Picks 5.

    I don't know if this particular anonymous comment is from someone we know, but a couple of the others in that thread are (not me, my comment there about 4-26-72 is attributed.)
     
  19. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    4-1-91 I would definitely second, they get into this almost 'ambient' kind of jamming in 91 that's unlike any other era. It's not like the 70s which has more 'movements,' but kind of an amorphous polyphonic texture.
     
    Crispy Rob, bzfgt and uzn007 like this.
  20. Quotes I've heard: Honolulu 1970, "Good Lovin'"- Tequila, by The Champs. Don't recall which guitarist.

    Berkeley Community Theater, 1987- Garcia briefly quotes the signature opening of Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" on "Birdsong".
     
  21. try Hampton, 04/09/1983. If you know of a better "Slipknot", please let me know.
     
  22. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    Cool, thanks. I seem to recall that there was another with a large time gap between it and 1979 (~10 years?). I'm not being very helpful because I can't even remember if it was more likely to be ca. 1970 or 1990 ... I would maybe start by checking in the Bruce/Vince era, actually.
     
    bzfgt and ianuaditis like this.
  23. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    I've heard Garcia do Peter and the Wolf a couple of times in space I think it was 91, ditto Jesu joy of man's desiring (that one is all over.)
    I have a star over that one in my notes, but no comments. The 83-84 versions are intense but more direct whereas the later versions seem to go more places (again, as that seems to be the norm in 76 too.) I will put 4-9-83 on my 'revisit' list, though it may be a couple of years before I revisit the 80s, I have tons of Brent era shows I've never heard in my queue at the moment.
     
  24. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    1-11-79, I somehow skipped this one earlier in the year.

    I believe this is the debut of 'we used to play for acid, now we play for Clive.' I think I like the 78-79 version of Jack Straw better than any other. On some 80s versions they really go crazy on the final jam, but there's plenty of that in the K&D era, and they have a certain 'spring in their step' on these that I really like as opposed to the 80s versions.
     
  25. jhw59

    jhw59 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rehoboth Beach DE.
    Phil dropped a huge bomb on the opening note of Help, shook the building. On of my favorite shows I saw.
     
    Crispy Rob, budwhite, adamos and 5 others like this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine