The Great USB cable debate poll

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by mindblanking, Feb 22, 2015.

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  1. mindblanking

    mindblanking The Bourbon King Thread Starter

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Yes, a little more sparkle. That's a good way to describe it. That's why, as I said, the difference seems to be most noticeable with vocals and horns.
     
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  2. 62caddy

    62caddy Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Many times.

    I'd rather not spoil the surprise :D - or influence individual observations of those who chose to perform the experiment. :)

    Try it for yourself and see what you think.

    *Ideally you should have someone else do the switching for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
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  3. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    You need to gaze more intently at the document, and then you will see.

    Just kidding. :)

    I don't know the case for printers, but I assume they are like any other data transfer, for which USB uses bulk transfers, which are not time-dependent and include error checking and correction. Audio is transferred over USB via isochronous transfer which is accomplished in fixed time intervals and therefore includes error checking but not correction.
     
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  4. Dr Tone

    Dr Tone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    If the data received at the DAC is erroneous, you'll hear some horribly shocking squealing, possible clicks and pops or no audio at all. You certainly won't hear less defined bass, less soundstage or less sparkle justifying a more expensive cable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
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  5. 62caddy

    62caddy Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Out of curiosity, I will check with a friend who is a studio engineer at a major television broadcasting network in NYC to see what USB cables they use - in a professional application where the importance of high quality signal transfer is paramount.

    While I am at it, I will inquire about what RCAs they use as well.
     
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  6. rhubarb9999

    rhubarb9999 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    And this is what I find so funny about the digital cable argument. A better cable has 'more sparkle'. If there are bits and packets getting dropped .. they don't affect any portion of the frequency. The error correction in the DAC has to 'fill in' the missing pieces of data .. and it does not discriminate between highs, lows, volume, dynamics, sound stage, image, or anything else.

    This is applying analog thinking to a digital medium. If you have a really cheap analog interconnect, the increased capacitance and/or resistance COULD cause the loss of 'sparkle' or high frequency rolloff. This simply does not apply in the digital world.

    It would be the same as the colors on my laser printer look a little more 'dull' with a cheap cable. It don't work like that folks.
     
  7. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    It can't unless its defective
     
  8. Jonboy

    Jonboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Town
    I voted yes because expensive USB cabling makes the 1s and 0s better - more shiny and better-defined...
     
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  9. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    Peter Belts stuff actually worked though!!!, sometimes.

    I have heard Audioquest dem of £100 up to £500 ish
    and the difference was so small - more tonal changes rather than improvements.
    However I always keep an open mind.
     
  10. Jonboy

    Jonboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Town
    Placebo?
     
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  11. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    re what, PB ? or USB cables ?
     
  12. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    Probably not the best example to use. While I imagine the high end watches are well engineered, it's accepted they're jewelry, luxury cache items, etc. In other words, ultimately frivolous - it's not about how well they tell time, it's about how pretty they are and how smooth the second hand glides. So in other words, I agree with this analogy of expensive USB cables to expensive watches, but I don't think you do.
     
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  13. Jonboy

    Jonboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Town
    An
    Any cable that passes a digital signal.
     
  14. mindblanking

    mindblanking The Bourbon King Thread Starter

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    No it really does because me and nearly a third of the forum can hear it. But thanks for the input. Maybe it's better if we just agree to disagree.
     
  15. Jonboy

    Jonboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Town
    I guess perception is reality.
     
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  16. jjjos

    jjjos Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    No, it really doesn't just because a certain number of people claim to hear it.

    Liken it to the digital switchover of broadcast television. It's exactly like that, really. With analog TV, you could get a set of antennas that would help catch the signal better, which resulted in better colors, sharper picture, and less noise.

    With digital broadcast television, the signal's either there or it isn't. If you have enough of the signal for the decoder to use, you get a sharp, crisp HD image, depending on the source material and the display you're using. The transmission does not have any effect on the quality. It's either there looking great, or it's black. That's just how it is.
     
  17. beep

    beep Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    I bought an ADL GT40 USB DAC here in classified last year. It was sent to me with what I imagine is the black USB cable it came with. I plugged it into my laptop and played some songs on I Tunes. The sound with both my Senn HD580's and Grado 325i's was way too bright. Mostly unlistenable. On a whim I bought a 1.5 meter Pangea AG USB cable on sale for like 35 dollars. The difference in the sound was huge, slightly too bright but listenable. I switch cables back and forth, same results. I voted yes there is a difference in cables based on my experience.
     
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  18. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    I can't really vote because I don't fully understand the criteria, but my experience with USB cables is that if/when they are doing their job they are about the same but in terms of the connections themselves they have the potential to release noise into your system, especially if there is a mix of signals going into the cable. No idea why but this is my experience. I generally use USB cables in the interface with my computer through my Focusrite Scarlett in the studio and through a USB interface and several midi controllers live, where the controllers go to the computer and then the ultimate computer signal contains a bunch of sounds and those all wind up in the USB interface which goes to the PA (I use an M-Audio box live). The connections have a potential to make noise, and can pretty much sound like any other audio connection.
     
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  19. DreadPikathulhu

    DreadPikathulhu Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Perhaps people could start wearing their audiophile cables around their necks like jewelry. The one Vidiot posted certainly would qualify. That might make the babes come-a runnin'.
     
  20. 62caddy

    62caddy Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Believing is hearing. :)
     
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  21. 62caddy

    62caddy Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Amen.
     
  22. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    I'm not voting because I don't use one for audio. I know my scanner will crap out if the cable is too long. As is being clarified, the audio standard depends on the receiving device to mitigate any data corruption, but there is no resending packets as in a data transfer. So whatever device getting the signal has a variety of correction circuits and protocols, and a better insulated cable could possibly cause this circuitry to be taxed less, which could conceivably have some advantage in terms of thermal and power consumption issues. Very small changes, but negligible? IDK. I certainly have noticed that the debunkers in these discussions seem to have as much bad information as the believers do anecdotal impressions.
     
  23. 62caddy

    62caddy Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    As in the scanner example, there is either total failure or it works.

    There is no continuum of degradation. This is the nature of digital.
     
  24. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    I own a 1m Pangea USB cable as well. No differences in sound going between my Mac Mini and McIntosh D100, but I'll try it in my headphone rig for fun (I didn't notice a difference going from a spare printer cable to a Schiit Pyst cable, but I'll keep an open mind).

    I like the Pangea USB and power cables as the fabric coverings and relative stiffness helps prevents "cable rats nest" effect. I can look behind my system and see where every cable begins and ends. So yes, cables do make a difference!
     
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  25. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    So, for example, if the cable is running in proximity to an noise source that causes the receiving device to periodically guess at a 1 or zero, right or wrong, the music continues to play or the music stops. My question is if the circuitry on the receiving end making corrections and guesses causes degradation of the sound when a better transmission of the 1s and zeros would make less use of these correcting circuits.
     
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