The love/mostly hate here for Crosley

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Mazzy, Sep 17, 2014.

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  1. tin ears

    tin ears Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland UK
    Whether or not it damages your vinyl can partly depend on the material you're playing. Low compliance ceramic carts generally don't match well with 12" club mixes or anything with heavy drums or loud transients. Highly dynamic music like this will often throw the stylus out of the groove causing permanent skips. Less demanding, quieter cuts and material generally fare better.

    Another feature of the low compliance cart/high tracking force/plastic platter combination is - skid marks! These will usually appear on the side touching the platter as your vinyl loses traction and slips about due to the high VTF and the stylus struggling to navigate the grooves on the opposite side.

    So that's permanently engraved distortion, skips, skid marks, sibilance and don't forget the wildly erratic speed instability. As The FRiNgE mentions above, sometimes as little as one or two plays on these vinyl grinders is enough to damage your records forever.

    When I was a kid in the 70's I'd regularly subject my vinyl to a variety of fairly dodgy second-hand equipment, dozens of times, over & over; old BSR changers, portable Dansettes, etc. I've still got those old records and they all still sound OK with no major apparent groove damage. Sadly the plastic revolution brought us an abundance of cheap, mass-produced Crosley style horrors in the 80's. All my pals had them, hell, I even had one myself for a couple of weeks before I got a refund. It's little wonder people embraced CD when it came along.
     
  2. florandia

    florandia Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I have two of these machines boxed up in my crawlspace.
    Around 7 years ago my then 9 year old nephew started to show an aptitude for playing drums despite being totally blind .
    We , as a family bought him a drum kit and he has since gone on to playing in a local covers band .
    My nephew attends The Florida School for the Blind and Deaf at St Augustine Florida where he drums
    for the school band 'In Vision', he is also an avid listener of music esp. from the sixties .
    At Xmas 7 years ago he was given 2 of the infernal Crossly machines by well meaning friends and family.
    He quickly realized that he could not use the turntables .
    When he comes over to the house he offers to put a record on the turntable for me..............he has a great sense of humour!
    I hate it that he has such a disability but am thankful that he lives in an era where he can access tech products that enhance
    his life,
    I have no idea what to do with these Crossly products in my crawlspace , I could sell them and give my nephew the proceeds
    of the sale but I do feel very conscious about selling items that I despise,
     
  3. DeRosa

    DeRosa Vinyl Forever

    What about the millions of people who spent $300-400 for an iPod or iPod mini less than 10 years ago?
    Why has the bar been dropped so low that expectations are consumers want a $40 TT?
    I think it's a mistake to chase low end garbage and deny the user a great experience.
    Apple should just start selling a great turntable with built in speakers that also streams iTunes.
    In my opinion the "crossly" effect is just operating in a vacuum of interesting consumer products.
     
  4. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    The Crosley is just a more expensive Duraflame log.
     
  5. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    Duraflame logs don't tear up records , though. In that regard Duraflame is superior. It sets no false expectations.

    The sad thing is that if the volume were sufficient to permit the tooling costs you actually could make a halfway decent table for not a great amount more than the Crosley. The small synchronous clock motors used in tables like the Linn Sondek are a few dollars in 1K and up quantity, and you could use a valve guide and valve stem type bearing. In automotive quantities they'd have to be cheaper than a valve and guide if they didn't need the head or sodium filling. The plinth and platter could be an injection molded filled type plastic, although I'm sure balancing of the platter would be necessary. A standard O ring for the drive belt.

    The arm could be done as two small investment castings (look at Sturm Ruger OEM stuff) and a diesel engine pushrod without the endballs.

    In ten K quantity I'll bet the results could be astonishingly good at $199.99. Although the included cartridge would have to be very basic.
     
    The FRiNgE and McLover like this.
  6. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Crosley takes advantage of people, plain and simple. They know their products don't work right out the box, It is common for new record to skip and will not last. The people selling the tables know this as well and yet they keep selling. I literally heard a guy in a store last week say, "as long as it spins it is just as good as any other record player."

    Often, Crosley bashing is met with accusations of being an elitist or intolerant of people with low budgets and that is pretty unfair. For the most part, people that love records, really love records and what they love about records does not come through on a Crosley.

    Lets face it, turntables are not all that common. People don't understand how they work and are taken advantage of by the "vintage styling" and the low price point. I feel that these tables repel just as many people from the format as they attract. If you don't really know what records sound like and you make this assessment on what you are hearing from a Crosley, why would you ever find it preferable to another format?
     
    Shak Cohen, Trapper J, Gumboo and 3 others like this.
  7. What scares me is in a few years after this vinyl fad (I said it!) is over, people who own Crosley's who move on to the next fad will sell their vinyl as "near mint"
     
  8. quadjoe

    quadjoe Senior Member

    I agree. But it is also the reason why we audiophiles and vinyl lovers need to take the time to help people learn how to treat and care for their records. I believe the biggest problem that many of us have is the notion that you have to spend mega-bucks on a turntable/cartridge in order to protect your records. The fact is that a competently designed turntable and tonearm with a good quality cartridge will give you years of enjoyment from your records and no huge outlay of cash is necessary. That's why many on the SH forums champion buying used, while others recommend good quality budget tables to newbies. People do have to spend more than the price of a Crosley or Ion turntable to keep from damaging their records (or wearing them prematurely.) However, they can get a decent turntable and cartridge combo for just a few hundred dollars. BTW, the reason that the P-mount (T4p) standard was developed was to take the guess-work out of cartridge installation and set-up to make it easy for the casual listener. I have a Technics SL-DD22 P-mount table with an AT-331LP cartridge that is an excellent combination, I get no IGD from it and it sounds very good. My total outlay of cash in 1987 for that was just under $300.
     
    Shak Cohen and The FRiNgE like this.
  9. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    And those records will probably sound just fine. Ive heard records after crosleys and they were good
     
    Rolltide likes this.
  10. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    This video should put you right if you are thinking of buying a Crosley.

     
    Grant and 2xUeL like this.
  11. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    Of course the Pioneer is going to sound better and we are not the audience here. I wish he would compare to another all in one if there is such a thing) and not a separate. That's what many intro folks want.
     
  12. sloaches

    sloaches Forum Resident

    I use my old Crosley for LP wood glue cleanings.
     
    vinyl13 likes this.
  13. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    That Pioneer wasn't a particularly good Jap model even in it's day. The main concern is record damage which is inevitable as that video shows. A 1970s BSR autochanger is a far safer bet than that Crosley.
     
    vinyl13 and sunspot42 like this.
  14. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    If the main reason for the angst over Crosley is the possibility of one buying used records damaged by Crosleys, then I would just suggest to people they be more careful when buying Florence And The Machine and MGMT albums. I don't think this is going to become an issue.
     
    Donniej, sunspot42 and jimbutsu like this.
  15. Trapper J

    Trapper J Senior Member

    Location:
    Great White North
    I'm so sick of having to break the news to people who tell me "I bought a record player!", (because they know I have a vinyl collection)... That the "insert crappy brand here" is chewing up their records.

    Haha, so true. As long as the people who buy these cheap tt's are also buying brand new vinyl,.. Then have at er'!

    It's when I see people on youtube, and their little "vinyl haul" videos.. And I think, geez, they went to a used record shop, and grabbed every trendy, cool, popular album they could think of... JUST BECAUSE IT'S VINYL... and now they are going to chew it up on these crap tt's, and either keep it to look at, or just as worse, in a few years throw it back on the market.

    THAT'S the issue. IMO
     
    Donniej likes this.
  16. Trapper J

    Trapper J Senior Member

    Location:
    Great White North
    This post was a while back, so perhaps I'm too late to chime in here, but...

    I think the potential is only for a quick burst of interest.

    If these players really do chew up vinyl, how long would it take before some kid that just bought a cheap tt and a favorite record, to A.) realize it sounds waaaaay better on cd, or spotify.. because even a decent tt will (i think) have trouble tracking and playing back a harsh metal album, or a fat dance beat with loads of bass.. and B.) even if it sounded good,.. how long before the vinyl gets chewed up and sounds like garbage? (I've read estimates of after 5 plays you'd notice it)

    The people buying these players, that don't realize the lack of quality,. Or don't even care enough to look into why this may be a better medium, and upgrade to a better tt.. I think they will stop wasting their money on something that sounds inferior, and gets worse the more they play it.

    BTW, the cool looking Crosley's is what made me decide to finally buy a tt.. After years of collecting vinyl, but never being able to play any of it. I thought, hey, these look cool, and they're cheap. Score :righton:

    It took all of ONE QUICK google search to realize that there was no way in he!! i'd be putting any of my cherished vinyl on one of those things.

    Bottom line, I think... People that care about the experience, and their vinyl, will not buy this crap.. Or at the very least will upgrade very quickly. People who DON'T care... well, they don't care. I wouldn't bank on those people driving this market, or being any "good" for the vinyl community. Thanks for listening :cheers:
     
    Shak Cohen and The FRiNgE like this.
  17. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    I admit I don't have any hard data on the buying habits of Crosley owners, but I just don't think we have to worry about UK pressings of Dark Side of The Moon being chewed up by Crosleys. I'm picturing a lot of Bon Iver and $1 bing crosby Christmas albums from Goodwill. I'm sure there have been rare and valuable albums destroyed by Crosleys, but I think the logical progression after buying a Crosley is to buy the repressings on display next to it at Urban Outfitters, not to go out and start your Blue Note mono collection.
     
    Billy Infinity and 2xUeL like this.
  18. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    Is it weird that I now want to do exactly this out of spite?
     
  19. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Thanks for sharing that, I love 'put-it-to-the-test' comparisons like this. Going in I actually thought it might be difficult to hear a difference, but (of course) first and foremost the pitch on the Crosley was way off, but beyond that I also agreed with the commentator that the Crosley sound 'thin' and 'bright' (I might add 'brittle').
     
  20. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Because of this thread, I just discovered the U-Turn tables. Now I have a decent-sounding turntable I can recommend to my non-audiophile friends who want a cheap turntable to play their records on that won't chew them up, and conk out after three months.
     
    Shak Cohen likes this.
  21. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    They're absolutely brilliant turntables as long as you don't use them to play the following speed records:

    331⁄3
    45's
    78's.
     
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  22. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Explain why you don't like them.
     
  23. marka

    marka Forum Resident

    16 rpm is fine?
     
  24. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    A U-Turn table is a much better option than a Crossley, so I don't understand why he will not recommend them. The U-Turn has gotten good reviews from all the audiophile publication and Michael Fremer.
     
  25. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Was talking about Crosley not u turns.
     
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