The love/mostly hate here for Crosley

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Mazzy, Sep 17, 2014.

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  1. Jim in Houston

    Jim in Houston The Godfather of Alt-Country & Punk

    Location:
    Houston, TX, USA
    A couple of points from my POV, it's not just "kids today", it's a total disregard for quality in all forms from the entire population. The general population only wants the cheapest price and the appearance of what they are shopping for. If MP3s are free, no need to look any further. If I can get a bluray player for $39, that's all I need.

    People used to ask me about buying audio and video equipment and I'd try to give them thorough and thoughtful answers but what they really wanted was my blessing that it was OK to buy the cheapest thing.

    Once when is was giving my solicited opinion on the $99 USB turntables the questioner stopped me and said "none of that matters to me". Well, what were you asking me then?
     
  2. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    and thats why half the posts around here are back and forth about the cheapest price of releases. I get that people want to save, but there are maybe less then 10 normal regular purchase channels for new releases here and you'd think by now everyone would have them book marked. But hey, it's entertaining I guess.

    But on the other had, the look at Apple. their products are always higher prices and people still flock to them in droves.
     
    Jim in Houston likes this.
  3. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I think there is an over statement of how much damage these Crosleys do to records, particularly in the short term. If you play them for days on end for an extended period of time on these machines, yes, I'm sure they will see damage...but one spin 'destroying" the record (which is a claim I've seen but never proven)?I Don't buy it. The biggest problem most Crosley owners will face is having to constantly replace the machine due to the poor quality control. That's why I personally would never pay good money for a Crosley.

    Now. of course that depends on what some consider a "destroyed" record. If you are someone who can't stand even the occasional click and pop or surface noise...well yes, one spin on these or any non audiophile turntable will "destroy" that record for that listener. Some are far more anal than others and that's their perrogative. However most people who buy Crosley's or this type of player likely expect clicks pops and surface noise as part of the trade off. My Dad's record are crackly as a bowl of Rice Krispies,but it didn't matter to him. It's all subjective.
     
    John Bliss likes this.
  4. BuddhaBob

    BuddhaBob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Erie, PA, USA
    Our local Target has two Crosley models. The stock is right there on the shelf. I took a close look at the 4 boxes there 6 months ago and only one unit has moved off the shelf in that time. The same Target had vinyl for a few months, about 2 years ago. I snagged the remastered White Album and DSOTM then--they never restocked any of the titles and now all are gone. I guess there are some high-volume Targets that still have vinyl.

    If the Crosleys help sales volume of LPs, I guess I don't mind. Shame to damage discs, though.
     
  5. ArpMoog

    ArpMoog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    I think used is the way to go entry wise. Its hard to beat something like a Technics SL-D2 that you can probably get for 100 or less.
    I have one as a back up and it sounds really good. Built like a tank that D2, its not as nice as my 1200 but its still pretty good
    for what it is. I don't think you can do better for what you can get one for.
     
  6. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    If Tar
    If Target or any other retailer gave the space and displayed LPs and record players or turntables like you see in the first post here, they might sell some. It IS an investment for a store to do this and the markup on records may not be worth it to them. However the per disc profit is better today than it was back in the day.

    When I retailer shoves a few LPs on a shelf and stacks a few boxes of Crosleys or something else almost hidden away, of course they wont sell many.

    An Apple Store is the perfect example. Of course they make a great product(s) but they sell more per square footage than any other retailer in America. I think that Urban outfitters display area was very much influenced by Apple Stores.
     
    BuddhaBob likes this.
  7. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    So I sent an email to Crosley this morning asking which of their record players (if any) had a diamond tip stylus. Their reply is below. I know that everyone is also concerned about the weight, but after reading many of the comments here, I was surprised at their answer.

    They sell an audio technica replacement stylus for their tables...

    Dear Norman (AKA Mazzy),*

    Thank you for reaching out to Crosley Technical Support.

    All of our turntables have a diamond tip stylus. There are 2 specific stylus that have a higher quality metal. The NP-3 and NP-5 needle are the higher quality stylus which allows for a pivotable movement unlike the other needles. All the other needles, NP-1, NP-4, NP-6, and NP-7 that are most common have a diamond stylus as well they are just not as high end as the other 2 stylus.

    http://www.crosleyradio.com/

    Let me know if you have any additional questions, comments, or concerns.


    Kindest Regards,



    *I added the Mazzy part for you all here. :tiphat:
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
  8. MikeInFla

    MikeInFla Glad to be out of Florida

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    This is the one I saw at FYE.

    [​IMG]

    Looks like that heavy-weight AT cartridge that track around 3-5 grams.
     
  9. MikeInFla

    MikeInFla Glad to be out of Florida

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
  10. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia

    That's interesting. Now if we can get them to transfer over to a magnetic cart they would go a long way to redeeming themselves.

    I do find it funny everyone seemed to assume they used Saphire styluses. Do they even still make those??
     
  11. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Hang on, people have just been assuming that they use ceramic styli? C'mon, guys.
     
  12. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Well to be fair, a majority of the crosleys use Ceramic CARTRIDGES...(which is the same type used on most mass market turntables going back to the 50's and really until the late 60's perhaps was common on 99% of all record players). There's no such thing as a ceramic stylus. There are Diamond styluses and then Saphire styluses. The main difference here is durability. The Diamond ones last far longer and are less likely to have to be replaced as often, thus reducing the chances of playing records with a rough needle that can damage the vinyl. What the assumption was that Crosleys known for going with the cheepest parts, many assumed they also skimped on the needle. Not so much at least on that. However the ceramic Cartridges (and more importantly, the tracking force of those said cartridges) is the crux of the issue.
     
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  13. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    T
    Things keeping changing here. First some said, if they only at least had diamond tips. Well they do. Now the tracking force ...

    Of course these are entry level tables and not something folks here would use for their Primary.
     
    John Bliss and Grant like this.
  14. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Just to make a point, Would most car enthusiasts recommend to someone else, to save an unrestored vintage car, or junk it? On this forum, should we recommend to someone who has mint or NM collectible records to junk them on a Crosley, or save them? How is this being snooty or unfriendly?
     
    Shak Cohen likes this.
  15. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    But the reality is that must people; non audiophile or record collectors; don't have NM collectables.

    I've been through lots of friends remaining records. Some they kept. Looking through an assortment, most would be in dollar bins due to their wear.

    These would be fine to play on these record players for fun. None of us are reccomending collectables be played on these.
     
    David Campbell likes this.
  16. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    The irony of all of this is that a majority of the people who post here that have pretty much insinuated that Crosley shouldn't even be allowed to manufacture their entry level stuff for the sake of preserving precious vinyl, and that we need to shame the average newbie who start off with a Crosley as some heathen who doesn't know whats good for them , started into vinyl at a time where these types of vinyl "damaging" players were not only the norm...but were the only option for most people. The only difference is that the older stuff was over all better built and not as prone to quality control issues in terms of mechanical reliability,but they were still using Ceramic cartridges with the same 4-8 gram tracking force that supposidly destroy all vinyl they touch in a single play on a Crosley. I get that those Ceramic carts were likely better constructed and outclass the modern version used by Crosley and others (as with virtually any mass market consumer electronic component, things were made better then in terms of durability)...yet the fact is,by using the same standard,they were still "Killing" their vinyl on those players, and a lot of the same people on youtube and elsewhere decrying Crosleys as vinyl destroyers have no issue with glamorizing vintage Newcomb portable players and the like as paragons of quality in comparisons to the Crosley...but ignore or leave out that same player will likely do as much damage to records as a Crosley due to the tracking force being harsh.

    As I said last night, there is a sense of exclusiveness and more than a little bit of snobbery in the decrying of Crosley. I know that doesn't apply to all who have posted,but there are a few, especially a few pages back that make me feel like their opposition of Crosley comes from a place other than genuine concern for the experience of those who buy them. Yes they generally suck as far as record players go,but how many of us began listening to records on a crap player and then moved on to something better? Most of us I think. How would we have felt to have people belittle our choices, and talk down to us and tell us we are doing it all wrong and hinting we should be drummed out of the hobby for the sake of preserving "their" precious vinyl? Many of us likely would have said "screw this!!!" and go back to (shudder) cassette tapes.

    I get the feeling if tomorrow if Crosley announced that every model they made would now have a magnetic Cart that tracked 3 grams or less and had a built in pre-amp...there would still be some people here and elsewhere that would find something else to seize on. After all, gotta keep those dirty riff raff hipsters out of our hobby. :shh:
     
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  17. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Yes they do Mazzy! I see it all the time, inheritance from a relative the usual, and I recommend accordingly. The information is valuable and then they can make an informed decision.

    The typical vintage collection as purchased new from a record store contains approx 10% or fewer records of significant value in NM, give or take. So on the average, a collection of 100 to 200 records, typical of most average households would have approx. 10 to 20 valuables poised to be ruined, given they are in nice condition.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
  18. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    Depends on what the car is.

    In the case of Crosley, the sound they put out from a record is worse than ANY CD and so the argument for vinyl itself is moot if you have to play it on one of these things. I would not recommend people fool with vinyl AT ALL unless they were willing to pay for a basic table with a decent cartridge and some kind of back end besides a record player.

    Having said all that, even if you did want a box record player, an old Rheem Califone is probably a better choice especially if you can find one with a better cart than the schools used and those do exist.
     
    sunspot42 likes this.
  19. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    Actually you would be astonished to learn how many Shaded Dogs, Mercury Living Presence and 80s audiophile discs are now in the hands of people who could care less about them except that they have heard vinyl is cool.
     
    sunspot42 likes this.
  20. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    we
    Yes, and we have some people on this forum who are willing to pass on good information. In the 21st century, we have the artifacts from the 20th century, especially mid century stuff, from automobiles to kitchen appliances, interior furnishings, and records. The more informed a person can be the better. It's more than just being "cool" which they are!
     
  21. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Well there's a difference too between advising the newbies in a friendly manner that to improve their experience they may want to look at other methods than a Crosley , and, say, going to yard sales and actually seeking out cheap vintage players to purchase and destroy less they end up touching someone elses vinyl or shaming people via comments on youtube who show off their Crosley and similar players , getting ridiculed for their choices because they don't know whats good for them. I've even seen these same people told that they should have their records taken away from them as they obviously don't deserve to own a vintage pressing of the White Album that was passed down from their Dad or uncle because they don't have a $1000 dollar turntable . (yes, I've seen a similar comment on You Tube recently!)

    Again...if some 16 year old is enjoying that record on a $100 dollar Crosley....how does it hurt another's enjoyment of the same LP on a $10,000+ custom rig? Isn't the enjoyment of the music the most important thing of all here?

    I'm all for the giving of good info and people making informed choices. We just have to be careful how that message is presented.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
  22. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    I very ignorant person was given a 1961 Lincoln that had been sitting for 3o years half buried in the ground. The body was quite deteriorated, but the interior was complete and original. He was set upon junking it for 500 dollars. Some people on my brother's farm connected a battery and an IV can, and it started and RAN. The poor engine had no coolant, the oil wasn't checked, probably had turned to tar. He said he was already paid, that the guy was on his way. My nephew shot a short clip. I have a few choice names for ignorant people, just a look at this should say it all:
     
  23. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    I agree the attitudes could be better, sparing the snide remarks. I am sometimes guilty of that, and reminding myself some people here are not hifi buffs. It's not a perfect world, so perhaps everyone should try to understand another's point of view. (that's what discussion is all about)

    I am more concerned about the preservation of music. There exist the 1st pressing records cut from the original master. Some of these masters no longer exist, rather copies of them with generational losses. The 1st pressing is an analogue copy with all the fidelity of an original master pressed into its groove. The play of such a record on heavy tracking Crosley can and will destroy the fidelity pressed into the record. Just one play is enough; That's all it takes! Such records do exist in the collections of families, who may not be aware, and end up in the hands of the uninformed. A person not experienced in high fidelity, who has never experienced high fidelity has no clue as to what's happening, nor would that person care. However some people will care.

    I feel very strongly, the 1st pressing record, or any well pressed record in the hands of any person carries a responsibility to handle it properly. Lack of information may be a valid excuse, however the end result may be another casualty. I have said to those who intentionally burn up new records on their juke boxes, to those who have said," I just enjoy them, and don't care about wearing them out" ... OK, you have just increased the value of my collection! And we can laugh about that.

    I have a mission to inform, and writing a book on the topic. Collectibles are more than something to simply enjoy, not ruthlessly. In my opinion, every collectible carries with it the responsibility of the owner to: (applies to any collectible)
    1) know what they have, do the research, ask questions
    2) care for the item properly, or make the best effort,
    3) be concerned about the greater interest, the preservation of a historical artifact
    4) understand the item may be better in the hands of a collector, consider selling as is, unmolested and original.

    The realization of mismanagement or improper care, or that an item may be "molested" in the hands of an uninformed person.. does not insult the intelligence of the uninformed person. Knowledge can be humbling. I am no exception and subscribe to it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
    Grant likes this.
  24. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    You just can't fix stupid. Some people are genuinely stupid, and all you can do (without going to jail) is stay out of their way.

    Others are amenable to education.
     
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  25. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    And this my friend, brings us full circle in this discussion. If someone could purchase an all-in-one that was promoted to be of good build quality and easy on records for under $400, and it was well marketed, there is a bigger audience now than in many years for this item. Not a component but one record player.

    Bring it on. I would buy one for my guest room downstairs and leave a few (non collectible) records in it.
     
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