The Master (Paul Thomas Anderson film in 70mm)*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Jerry Horne, May 21, 2012.

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  1. harmonica98

    harmonica98 Senior Member

    Location:
    London, UK
    Finally saw 'The Master' this week. Firstly the 70mm looked glorious - very good technical presentation at the Odeon West End. I can't remember the last time I saw a new film on actual film.

    I'd agree that the film doesn't really work and could be considered a failure, but what a failure! Both lead actors are extraordinary, though I prefer the less mannered performance of Hoffman. The movie is teeming with ideas, it's just a shame that they are not marshaled totally successfully.

    I don't think it will be a commercial success. Far too oblique for mainstream audiences but will do well with the arthouse crowd.

    Tom
     
  2. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    The production costs of The Master are estimated by imdb to have been about $32 million, which is quite modest these days, esp. for a 70mm film. But it's grossed only $15m, and so the losses are substantial.
     
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Well deserved, IMO. It's a mess of a movie overall, despite some positive aspects.
     
  4. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    I'll probably get the blu-ray. Maybe the plot wasn't 100% up to par, but it was so beautifully shot and masterfully (har har) acted that I think it makes up for the plot.

    Plus I'm guessing that the blu-ray will be a reference-quality disc, being transferred from 70mm.
     
  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Can't argue with that. I'm still puzzled why those shots in the trailer were left out of the movie, like Joachim Phoenix screaming, "JUST TELL ME SOMETHING THAT'S TRUE!"
     
  6. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    I already gave my theory: look at the details in the scene and you'll see it's a different take than what was used in the final cut. Perhaps there was something wrong with the rest of that take?
     
  7. peteham

    peteham Senior Member

    Location:
    Simcoe County
    I saw this the other night. I quite enjoyed it. I didn't feel it lacked in narrative. I was quite captivated.
     
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  8. Monosterio

    Monosterio Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Florida
    I agree with the negative comments here. For me, it was the single most overrated movie of last year. I don't mind seeing a complex film in which you have to do some thinking and analyzing to figure out what the director is up to, just as long as when you do get there, you have little or no doubt that you have the right answer. But when my interpretation differs from -- but is just as "valid" as -- yours, his and the other guy's, that's not my idea of great moviemaking.
     
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  9. amoergosum

    amoergosum Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Great cinematography but awful story...
     
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  10. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Despite the semi lack of coherence (in my opinion), the acting and the cinematography alone make this a day-one blu-ray purchase for me. Can't wait to see how the 70mm transfer looks on blu-ray!
     
  11. Monosterio

    Monosterio Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Florida
    It is a gorgeous-looking movie, no doubt about it.
     
  12. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    This is one hell of a good-looking blu-ray! Still doesn't live up to the 70mm presentation I saw in the theater, though. That was amazing and possibly the best picture quality I have ever seen in my life.

    I wish they had included a featurette on the disc about the choice of shooting 65mm and doing all the color timing photochemically, and what all that entailed. That's really my only gripe. If you liked this movie, definitely pick this up on blu-ray, as it's a reference-quality disc.
     
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  13. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Did you happen to see "Dark Knight" or "Dark Knight Returns" on real IMAX screens? The segments specifically shot IMAX offered the most impressive cinematic visuals I've ever seen.

    (Didn't see "Master" on the big screen...)
     
  14. dmt

    dmt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, CA
    How come the Blu ray is in 1:85:1 and not in standard 70mm 2:20:1 ?
     
  15. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Nope, sorry, didn't see either of those!
     
  16. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    1.85:1 is the aspect ratio that it was shot in. It's mostly interior scenes or tighter shots, so I think 2.20:1 would have been a bit of overkill.
     
  17. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    I have to go to work now, but I'm halfway through The Master on Amazon on Demand and I must say I'm enjoying the hell out of this film. Joaquin Phoenix is stunning. I feel so bad for him, it's incredible. Best performance of a "drunk" since Albert Finney in "Under the Volcano." Just a devastating portraying of a wet-brain alcoholic. Awful. I've had my moments where I've gotten tired of Seymore Phillip Hoffman, but his acting in The Master is revitalizing my respect for him. He's a perfect fit for the role. He's aging well. His blubbery baby-face youth is giving way to a profile cut from the early 20th century. He looks every part the "patron" of this cult he's leading. Hemmingway meets Teddy Roosevelt. Very convincing. The supporting cast is wonderful and the photography, as others have said here, is making me bemoan the fact I didn't see it in the theater. Gorgeous. Those scenes where he was taking studio portraits in a department store blew me away. Incredible recreations. Anyway, I will have to finish my comments when I finish the movie, but halfway through I'm riveted by what PTA has come up with again. HE is the master.
     
  18. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Just finished the film. Much brilliance in it for me. I can completely understand others' disappointment as the film veers far off from the neat and tidy package that is the processed and structured Hollywood film. That structure was borrowed from the stage. Three acts building toward climate. Anderson is obviously an artist who doesn't feel the need or desire to work within that stricture. More power to him, I say. I think when you've seen enough films or read enough short stories or plays, that structure -- a well defined, progressive narrative driven by conflict and obstacle, all paced to provide a tension that will be relieved through final resolution -- I think that structure, though proven, can finally seem too rudimentary and cliched to some. So when someone like Anderson is brave enough to dispense with that backbone entirely, I applaud him. But does failing to adhere to the three act structure make this film a failure? I hardly think so. I think it's precisely what Anderson has been growing toward as a director: Working as a filmmaker who delivers distilled slices of life -- a picaresque laced with epiphanies -- told without the artifice of the three act structure. I think Anderson wants the viewer to experience the reality he has put on film as we experience it in life - unadorned by story or logical connection. I think he's aiming for the structure of experience itself. Looking back on your own life, when you remember events from your past, do you see it as one long flowing story that all fits neatly, logically together. I doubt it, or no one would suffer the eternal questions "Who am I?" or "What does it all mean?" I think when we genuinely look back on our pasts, we recall scattered scenes, separate moments that capture the spirit of a particular event. Granted, if you chose to examine this collection of memories in the gestalt, they might then spell out your story on a more cohesive level. But who among us is brave enough to read the story of their own life? I certainly don't want to. I'm not brave enough to try! But I think that is precisely Anderson's approach. He is making you interpret these character's stories, he is asking you to ferret out the truth by presenting this collection of beautifully rendered snapshots. He asks you to find the epiphany in the lives of his characters, because they are too busy blundering through them, as we blunder through our own lives. What was the story of these men in The Master? For me, its was a simple story of the immovable object (Phoenix) meeting the unstoppable force (Hoffman). And in a case like that, what kind of resolution can you expect? I just really admire Anderson for being brave enough to work as an artist, rather a creator of 'entertainments' (I borrow that description from Graham Greene.) I seriously doubt he's worried about opening weekend box office, overseas profits or opening against X-Men VIII. He's an artist. I think he's the new Stanley Kubrick, or at least that is who he most closely resembles artistically as a filmmaker. But he's also more daring than Kubrick in that he's clearly not looking for box office numbers (I think Kubrick, being completely in control, money and otherwise, was greatly worried about box office success). Anderson, in that way, is spiritually more akin to Ingmar Bergman as a true artist most concerned with expressing the human condition. That someone so young can be so self-assured is truly amazing to me, and that he's committed to this at this point in his life is a wonderful thing because he has so far yet to go. I'm envious of the young people who will get to watch him grow over the next 30 years (something I won't live to see). There's little doubt in my mind he is the filmic genius of this generation. Oh, and regarding resolution in The Master? Well, again, dispensing with traditional structure where a character is expected to swallow his hubris or find redemption, Anderson throws that expectation as aside as lightly as the does other conventions. Simply, Phoenix cannot be tamed. He will not be changed, humbled or even take away a lesson from his encounter with Hoffman. Even Hoffman is forced to accept Phoenix is a man with no master. When they part ways, Hoffman's Svengali act -- through which Hoffman was determined to throw his reins around this young drifter's soul -- is tossed off like a passing joke by Phoenix. Phoenix mocks the processes of The Cause in the middle of a drunken shag with the girl from a pub. All Hoffman's posturing is tossed aside like so much sound and fury signifying nothing. Who indeed was the master and who was the stooge? It's all turned around in that last scene. Anyway, perhaps it's not perfect in its conception, but I think it's all there if you take the time to add up the pieces that Anderson lays before you like beautiful glittering stones. A very interesting film. I was not disappointed in the least.
     
  19. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I completely disagree with Chad in everything he says here... but thoroughly enjoyed his comments. We definitely see things differently, but I respect his opinion and the fact that he backs up his opinions with some interesting observations and thoughtful comments.

    My main problem with the movie was that simply there was no traditional beginning, middle, and end, and we wind up at the end knowing about as little as we did at the beginning. Hoffman's character is still a cypher, Phoenix is a loser, and they roll the credits. I think there's just no there there.

    I know a good chunk about L. Ron Hubbard, I've talked with people who knew him extremely well for decades (including the late Forrest J Ackerman), and I've read several books about Scientology, and I think there's a good, dramatic story there about how it started and what Hubbard was all about. But this movie isn't it, and I don't think it presents a satisfying story about compelling characters. I think it's an episodic story with some great moments interspersed with a lot of "what the F" scenes. I saw no point to it. (Maybe, as some critics have observed, that was the point.)

    Put this on one of the theaters in the Hell Multiplex, along with Tree of Life and a bunch of others that made no friggin' sense. (And both movies were extremely beautiful and well-photographed.)
     
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  20. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US

    Jesus. I wrote all that? I musta been pretty bored! I just came to this thread to say The Master is now on Netflix. AND I watched it again and hated it. It's just too painful to watch. Probably because I was never sure if Phoenix is acting or not, he's just such a wreck it made me uncomfortable. Well, talk about a turnaround from my longwinded diatribe. I still like the structure, but the overall impression the film leaves is just so damn bleak.

    Hahahhaha. And I loved the Tree of Life and watched it thrice over a week!
     
  21. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    I've got to agree with your clear-eyed, morning after reevaluation of the film. I think we all really wanted it to be Anderson's MASTER-piece in light of the brilliance of his earlier films. What we got was much acting technique by the actors, particularly Phoenix, who seems to have never met a piece of scenery he didn't want to chew, and a lot of convoluted scenes with messages that went nowhere. My moment of truth came when I encountered the just-released Blu-ray, grabbed one in joy, and then put it back in the rack with the realization that I'd actually have to watch the damn thing again.
    Bring back the frogs, Paul.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
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  22. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    I watch this every time its on Sky Movies HD
    Every time I get more out of it and feel more immersed by the experience
    It rambles,its incoherent and I want more detail all the time
    The very vagueness is intriguing
    Its a minor masterpiece.
     
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  23. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    Happy to see there's a new PT Anderson movie due out this year. At least we don't have to wait 5 years for another one.
     
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  24. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Eh, I still like it. It's worth owning on BD for the sheer beauty of the picture quality, if nothing else.

    Great soundtrack, too.
     
  25. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    Got to see this recently in 70mm and it looked fantastic. Made me wish every film could be presented this way. All the clarity of digital with the wonderful warmth of film. Just beautiful.
     
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