Well, I don't care what they think. But seriously, you should save the critique for after you've seen it. You may just enjoy it, on some level.
I'm gonna watch it now. I quite like Cheadle (and Miles, duh ), so I'll chime in with my two cents laters, gentlemen.
They be dissin' on Miles, man. I will probably seek it out, however I'd be surprised to be impressed, guy doesn't even look like Miles.
I know what you mean. And I don’t think it needs to go on your (or anyone’s) must-watch list. Just that if you are going to watch it, try to let go of expectations.
You a gangsta now, cat? But yeah. The film. Ain't much point in judging something you haven't seen, heard or experienced yourself, is it? And whatever other shortcomings this movie has got (and there are quite a few), one thing it sure ain't doing, is dissing Miles. It is quite meta and it takes the right or perhaps rather wrong state of mind to get it. If you are looking for a straight chronological biopic were a guy that look 99% like Miles but totally doesn't get anything about the man because he tries to play at being him instead of rather try to be him, you will of course be sorely disappointed. Then again, you probably will be just that, having made up your mind in advance. It is a phantasmagorical fantasia. A drug-informed decent into Miles' paranoia. It all takes place in a split second inside of his mind while doing an interview backstage. Cheadle mixes fact, fiction and pure fabrication, just as Davis does for the entire length of the movie. He meets a young trumpet who is a junkie. Or is it himself? He is afraid of those crooks at the record label stealing his stuff. So he gives 'em the Big Payback, blaxploitation style. That is were the gangta stuff comes in and it is pretty funny if you've ever experienced some paranoia on yer own. Does this mobsters and shootouts while the band is playing in the middle of a boxin match in the ring while the fight is going down sound like something that happened in real life? He gets shot in the hip. Or didn't he and that whole thang is it a flashback to his hip operation and how he got hooked on painkillers? You can probably tell me by now and without watching it, being European and all. I liked it well enough. Cheadle is the best thing about it. He doesn't exactly look like the MD, but he still is the man with the horn fighting his various demons. The photography and the period details work very well. The music is smashing. The women look stunning. The clothes even better. I'll rate it close to a solid B-. Both for effort and for daring to do something a little clever and running with it. And if you try to see it as that, in some twisted way it actually ends up as a sorta, halfway-but-not-really semi-fitting hommage to the idea of what Miles was actually about. P.S. Don't take all this stuff so seriously, maaan, it is only a matter of life and death, really
Well you kind of sold me on it now...actually it's not that serious, it may be more that I'm afraid to shake the mental image of Retired Gangsta Miles I already have.
...and speaking on being sold: I bought the Genius of Miles Davis box set as a birthday gift to myself about a month ago. Been to busy to do anything but look at it admiringly since it arrived ten days ago but yesterday I finally split the protective plast on the first set and just submerged myself under a cascade of music. The earliest Columbia stuff hasn't been a favorite thus far, but behold! For now I can see.
The Man With The Horn recorded June 1, 1980 ~ May 6, 1981 original issue: Columbia LP FC 36790 in July 1981; subsequently released on CD as Columbia CK 36790 Produced by Teo Macero Hype sticker: “THIS IS IT! THE FIRST NEW MATERIAL IN 7 YEARS BY MILES DAVIS” Lead single: "Shout" (album length 5:52 | 7" single length 4:20 | 12” single length 7:15) Follow-up single: "Fat Time" (album length 9:53 | 7" single length 4:45) From Miles' autobiography: "In April [1980] my nephew Vincent Wilburn brought in his Chicago friends to play with me: Randy Hall, Robert Irving, and Felton Crews. He stayed until June and after we had got it together we made The Man With The Horn. Vincent played drums on some of the tracks. Dave Liebman turned me on to Bill Evans, a saxophonist who played on the date and was later a member of my working band. Dave had been Bill’s teacher, and when he told me Bill could play, I said send him over. I have always relied on musicians I respect, especially if they have played with me, to recommend other musicians. They know what I want and expect. "We got Angela Bofill to sing on that date as backup to Randy Hall, who co-wrote with Robert Irving the title song, “The Man With The Horn” and a couple of other tunes. I wrote three songs for that album for women I knew: “Aida,” “Ursula,” and “Back Seat Betty,” which was for Betty Mabry. The feeling says everything about them. I also wrote the rest of the songs. "My chops weren’t up because I hadn’t played for so long, so I started using the wah-wah. One day somebody hid my wah-wah – I think it was Sammy [Figueroa], because he was always trying to get me to play without it. At first, that f***ed me up, but after I started playing without it for a while I was all right. "Playing with this group got me back in touch with music. When I was retired, I wasn’t hearing any melodies in my head because I wouldn’t let myself think about music. But after being in the studio with those guys, I started hearing melodies again, and that made me feel good. Plus, I learned that although I had not played the trumpet for almost five years, I hadn’t retired from it. It was still there, all that sh** I learned over all them years of playing: the instrument, how to approach it, was still in my blood. The only thing I had to work on was building my technique, my embouchure, back to where it had been. "Bill Evans, my former piano player, had died in the summer of 1980. His death made me feel real sad, because he had turned into a junkie, and I think he died from complications of that. The year before Bill died, Charlie Mingus had died, so a lot of my friends were going. Sometimes it seemed like just a few of us were left from the old days. But I was trying not to think about the old days, because in order to stay young I believe a person has to forget about the past." screen grab of still image used during the October 17, 1981 episode of Saturday Night Live From Miles’ own website: "Miles’ nephew Vince Wilburn was responsible for getting the trumpeter out of the suicidal withdrawal in which he had enclosed himself since 1975. Wilburn, a drummer in a Chicago group that played music that combined funk, soul, and fusion jazz, persuaded his uncle in New York to join them in the studio. Miles, however, no longer had the same technical facility and had to record his trumpet parts later. He also met the saxophonist Bill Evans, the bass guitarist Marcus Miller, and called the drummer Al Foster back. The result was a hybrid record, divided between the Chicago group’s pieces that he himself referred to as “bubble gum music” and a very free jazz-rock, though less somber and dense than the damp jungles he wandered through without direction during the 70s. The hit “The Man With The Horn” and its sugary-sweet refrain received a lot of airplay on FM stations. Jazz lovers, rejoicing in Miles’ return, delighted in the rest of the repertory. But it was Mike Stern’s incandescent solo on “Fat Time” that everyone relished." From The Last Miles by George Cole: "The Man With The Horn was released in autumn 1981, with a curious cover featuring a metallic dummy’s head placed next to a mirror. It is a mysterious and slightly menacing image. The Man With The Horn may have been eagerly awaited by fans and critics (not to mention Columbia Records’ executives), but it’s reception was somewhat lukewarm. Typical was the reaction of Down Beat magazine, which buried its review in the middle of its 'new releases' section. Reviewer W. A. Bower awarded Miles’ new album three stars – a ‘good’ rating. Bower said, “Let’s get this out of the way. This record gets three stars because it’s Miles Davis.” "When I asked about his thoughts on The Man With The Horn, [saxophonist Bill] Evans says, “In general I like the record. I have a lot of great memories from this time in my life.” His message to the critics is simple: “This was Miles’ comeback. The world was lucky he was playing.”"
My introduction to the Man With The Horn material was through hearing the Rome '82 soundboard recording. I must admit, I was expecting more craziness along the lines of the mid-70's material, but got something completely different, of course. I thought it was a step backwards, actually, like Miles figured he needed to play it safe and not confound expectations when he came out of retirement (which is fair enough). My opinion didn't change once I actually tracked down The Man With The Horn. I do like "Back Seat Betty" and "Fat Time", though. I believe I asked this earlier, but why was Al Foster the only guy from Miles' 70's band to return to the fold? Even Miles' own statements posted above don't really make that clear- obviously, I suppose, he was looking for some fresh blood and a fresh sound in '80/'81. Not gonna lie, though- Mike Stern's guitar histrionics and Marcus Miller's slappin' and poppin' made me miss Cosey and Michael Henderson that much more...
For me, the 70s material is objectively of a higher quality, but subjectively i think that both the 7os and 80s were just about equally mixed bags. The main concession is that Miles’ trumpet playing is undeniably weaker in the 80s, but i don’t mind it. It’s still Miles. In recent years i’ve honestly found myself returning to the 80s stuff more frequently than the 70s. I guess in part it’s because, personally, i have nowhere to go with most of the 70s stuff whereas the 80s stuff has continued to grow and grow on me. Smooth avant garde, is one way to look at the post retirement work. I like TMWTH. Even the title track has grown on me; sounds like something that MF DOOM would rap over/sample. Shout is a great track but i think it’s also a good example of a Miles solo that is a bit of a dud. Quite like Bill Evans playing on this album, previously underrated by me.
I like Horn. Miles' chops are pretty weak, and Fat Time, Back Seat Betty and Aida has more power and were a good deal more impressive live. I don't think those tunes are that far removed from the 70s material. They are less dense but still based on vamps.
Oh, oh. I feel more expenditure coming on. This is the first studio album I don't have. And the next two.
This is one my all-time favorite Miles albums. I love the eclectic nature of the music - from the jazz-rock of "Backseat Betty" to the jazz-swing of "Ursula," and from the disco-funk "Shout" to the Spanish-tinged "Fat Time." And what a line-up of musicians - guitar Mike Stern, Barry Finnerty and Randy Hall; sax Bill Evans; bass Marcus Miller, Felton Crews; keyboards Robert Irving III, Randy Hall and drums, Al Foster, Vince Wilburn Jr. Miles plays, open, mute and wah-wah horn (the last time he used it on a recording). Miles was pretty weak and his chops were down, but he still plays with a passion that gets to the heart. And a big hand to Teo Macero, who basically worked on a series of jam sessions to produce a coherent album. The live versions of tunes like "Fat Time" and "Backseat Betty" took them to a new level. I can understand why jazz critics didn't like "Shout" and the ballad title track, but I like them, and clearly Miles did too, because he put them on his comeback album. There are a few outtakes and remixes from the sessions floating around and I'd love to see an extended version of this album released.
The Man With The Horn has some good tracks, which as DTK said were better in a live situation. The tracks not written by Miles ("Shout" and "The Man With The Horn") sound quite out of place.
I’m glad you made the connection between the New York band’s music (as opposed to the Chicago band’s music) from this album and his 70’s stuff. I’ve also though they share a certain darkness and structure, even if the sound is a little different.
In addition, the band played "Ife" from Big Fun (and setlist regular between 72-75) in concert 1981-82.
I think it was the Jack Chambers book that had a quote from Dave Liebman who said he had asked Miles why he was not asked back for the 80's band, and Miles answered that he wanted new players. Since Miles always said that the drummer was an important element in the band, I guess in that case he opted for consistency. I think some of the 72-75 players were doing okay in their own careers by 1981 anyway.
I am not very familiar with Miles output in this period. I had listened to The Man With The Horn one time many, many years ago and it really wasn't my cup 'o tea so it was never revisited. After about 6 listens in the past few days I have to admit that I like it. Although there seems to be a definite departure from what has gone before I still get a feel of continuity but also a return to structure. I have to agree with Jim that Shout and TMWTH sound out of place and if you remove those from the tracklist I find it sounds more like the last few albums. Overall it was just good to get Miles back in the studio and out of retirement. Looking forward to getting familiar with what's to come. Here's the band on Fat Time on tour after it's release.
This is a good place to chime in on the sound quality & mastering. I think the best way to hear this album is with the original LP, Columbia FC 36790. Nothing beats the sound of the original LP for this album; they got the tone just right. I haven't found a "best" digital for this album yet, but you can pick the mastering style that best fits your system/preferences. There's the first Japanese CBS CD, 35DP 16 (the European CDCBS 84708 shares the same mastering). These are bright, even when played with the pre-emphasis properly decoded, but one can EQ the bass up and treble down and have a very enjoyable ride. The original US CD, CK 36790 is noticeably louder and with some bass added in, but still sounds good if you turn down the volume. For some reason the Blu-spec2 CD [SICP 30277] is muddier than any other version; it's the digital version I enjoy the least. I have not heard the cassette, Mastersound or SACD. Anyone else able to comment on these?
Glad you picked this up, because I accidentally deleted my post! Yes, I like my vinyl version best. The Mastersound is closest to the vinyl release to my ears. The SACD version is a bit too bright.
I love the LP take of Fat Time - some great live versions but none has the same swagger. And Back Seat Betty definitely comes closest to picking up on the pre retirement feel. Again the studio version has a stately malevolence all of its own. Love Barry Finnerty giving it some Lucas - style riffing. I wish Teo had made more use of the complete take:
Nice to see Miles in a sort of "interim" look between his mid-'70s and his mid-'80s look. You can tell that he got self-conscious about his hair loss around this time by starting to wear caps, which were later replaced by that wondefully lush wig
Sorry I'm late. I just got into Miles around a year ago. With the purchase of The Man With The Horn today, I now have the complete Columbia catalogue from 'Round About Midnight to said album. I'm halfway through it now and think it's fine.
