The Miles Davis album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by KevinP, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. rednoise

    rednoise Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston
    My only copy of Bitches Brew was a quad LP that I picked up in the '70s. I was never able to hear it in quad, and it sounded lousy played in stereo. I could never get into the album until years later I got a stereo LP. Then I finally understood!
     
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  2. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Live-Evil was also released in quad.
     
  3. slapbass

    slapbass Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I love We Want Miles and agree with DTK that Teo Macero played a huge part in the album's success. Check out his editing on "Jean-Pierre." The full, original version is on the Japan-only release, Miles! Miles! Miles! (which I'm sure we will discuss later on!), which starts with some percussion and guitar. For We Want Miles, Teo started the track with Marcus Miller's thundering bass line -a much stronger intro. If you hear the full 20-minute version of "Back Seat Betty" you can hear how Macero's editing produced a much tighter track -the dramatic point around the three-minute mark, where Miles enters on open horn is thanks to Teo's editing.

    Another thing that surprised me is how strong Miles's horn playing is - he reaches almost bat-like frequencies on parts of "Fast Track/Aida" and his playing is exquisite on "My Man's Gone Now." The rhythm section of Al Foster/Marcus Miller is phenomenal - check out Miller's bass lines on "Back Seat Betty" and Foster's splashing cymbals at the coda on the same number.

    I know Stern gets some stick from some quarters, but I love his playing on this album. Poor Bill Evans gets most of his parts edited out, but it's good to hear him break out with the tenor sax on "Kix." I'd love to hear more official recordings from this band.

    On another note, there are lots of different versions of We Want Miles - LP, CD single disc, "Fat CD" with two discs, Japan Master Sound (mini LP sleeve and Jewel Case) and Blu-spec CD.
     
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  4. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    We're all different as I don't hear Dark Magus the way you do! It's one of my least favorite Miles. Vive la difference! It's all educational to listen to.

    I always thought it might be Cosey playing the drum machine.
     
  5. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    I think Cosey and Mtume both had them.
     
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  6. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    Thought it was just Mtume but I’m sure Cosey had a dabble. I can’t remember a passage where congas and rhythm box are playing simultaneously though.
     
  7. Kavorka

    Kavorka Chief Bottle Washer

    Location:
    North America
    I seem to recall some source claiming it was Mtume. Forgot the source (maybe even the Dark Magus CD liner notes? Although Dave Liebman seemed to have pretty shady memory).
     
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  8. Kavorka

    Kavorka Chief Bottle Washer

    Location:
    North America
    Not surprised. Dark Magus is a bit of an outlier for Miles. Nothing before or after sounds like it. And that's why I like it so much. I listened to many Miles bootlegs from 1972 - 75, some are almost ho-hum, but not Dark Magus performance.

    Also, what others condemn as a failed audition by Lawrence I cherish as some of the most daring sax playing I've ever heard.
     
  9. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    I’ll be back later with impressions on the album itself, but let me just say this first:

    THIS should have been the cover and the title for Miles’s first comeback album instead of “The Man with the Horn”. Would have been much more fitting and iconic, wouldn’t it?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    I also remember reading it was Cosey.
     
  11. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    "We Want Miles" is great. I much prefer it to all the live albums of the 70s. I know that the Miles Davis of those dark ages is fascinating but here, he steps back into the light (nicely conveyed in the cover design). I especially love Mike Stern's guitar playing on this collecection of recordings.
     
  12. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Methinks I need to grab We Want Miles at some point...like I said earlier, the only live stuff I've heard from that era is a couple of 1982 soundboard recordings.
     
  13. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    It's definitely Mtume (as per Agharta credits / Dark Magus liner notes etc.). Maybe Cosey occasionally played one but it wasn't part of his usual setup as far as I know.
     
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  14. Musicisthebest

    Musicisthebest Exiled Yorkshireman

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    If you're going to get a CD version I'd recommend this one as it's got additional tracks.

    Miles Davis - We Want Miles
     
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  15. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    There's not too much editing on Jean Pierre apart from the intro as you mention. It's often claimed the second short version is the same performance which is untrue, though I can't remember ever seeing it mentioned where it's from? Obviously another Japan performance - I wondered if it was an extra encore from the same show but didn't show up on Miles! Miles! Miles! Maybe another Japanese show / set was recorded. I'd take a Live 81 bootleg series box anyday.

    While I agree that the edited version of Back Seat Betty is good, the full (audience) version would be great to hear in pristine quality. It's terrific all round (way better than Tokyo) and I like the returns to the power chord theme. It's like every time the tune is broken up by the two chords, the band then take a new approach to some intractable problem (which to be fair Betty may well have been...)
     
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  16. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    Cool. I've listened to many of the boots as well. It's just not one I find rewards repeated listenings for me.
     
  17. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    I think Paul Tingen had quotes from the band about the drum machine in his book. Don't have it handy now unfortunately.
     
  18. slapbass

    slapbass Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Not heard the claim that both versions of "Jean-Pierre" are from the same performance before. The long version of "Jean-Pierre" is from 4 October show at Shinjuku Nishi-Guchi Hiroba, and the short version from the 3 October show at the same event (info from Miles' discographers Jan Lohmann and Enrico |Merlin). I agree that it would be great to hear the unedited versions - in the same way Miles's Filmore East shows were eventually released without the edits. As I said in my original post, it would be great to have more official releases from this band.
     
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  19. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    thanks, I probably did know that about Jean Pierre but lost in the mists. I'm sure several sources only list the 4th, I may be wrong.

    It's a shame Jan and Enrico's information about the post retirement shows isn't as easily accessible as Peter Losin's on the earlier years.
     
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  20. slapbass

    slapbass Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Couldn't agree more! I keep pestering Jan to release a second edition of his fantastic book or put it online. I'm sure you've seen the small portion of Enrico's discography on Paul Tingen's Miles Beyond website Miles Beyond, Session Details 1980-91
    Klaus Werner's Kind of Blue website has an excellent post-retirement discography (and also details for other periods of Miles's career) Session List
     
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  21. rxcory

    rxcory proud jazz band/marching band parent

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    No discussion of We Want Miles or the comeback year of 1981 would be complete without mentioning this gem:

    Miles! Miles! Miles! - Live In Japan '81

    [​IMG]

    original issue: Sony Japan SRCS 6513~6514 in November, 1992

    Recorded live at Shinjuku Nishiguchi Hiroba (新宿西口広場), Tokyo, October 4, 1981

    From AllMusic.com:

    "Issued in Japan in 1992, a year after Miles' death, this is the complete Tokyo concert from which "Jean-Pierre" was selected for Columbia's We Want Miles album. Ultimately, it adds corroborative detail to the most publicized comeback in jazz history without revealing any startling new facets. The repertoire is a bit different than on the Columbia release; the selections run together in two continuous medleys. "Back Seat Betty," a two-minute "Ursula," "My Man's Gone Now" and "Aida" ("Fast Track") form the first set, and "Fat Time" and "Jean-Pierre" are heard in the second. The then-frail trumpeter is obviously still groping his way back to form, sounding particularly tentative on "Back Seat Betty," but his vulnerability adds pathos to the reworking of "My Man's Gone Now." His young jazz-funk-rock band, though, is strong and tightly-rehearsed, having settled in after the first few months of Miles' comeback concerts. Guitarist Mike Stern sets the pace for all future Davis guitarists with his rapid-fire metallic crunching, Bill Evans contributes pertinent, if somewhat generic statements on soprano and tenor; drummer Al Foster is adept in funk and straight-ahead styles; and bassist Marcus Miller and percussionist Mino Cinelu fill out the sound. Why this expensive import was issued on two discs when its 75-minute length would easily fit on one is a conundrum that only Sony's accountants can explain." - Richard S. Ginell (3/5 stars)

    [​IMG] Miles & Teo, Tokyo, October 4, '81

    From The Last Miles by George Cole:

    "The Japan-only release Miles! Miles! Miles! features the October 4 [1981] concert, and the CD booklet includes some photographs of the tour. One shows Teo Macero with his arm around Miles and another is of Miles and Cicely Tyson together. The Japanese photographer Shigeru Uchiyama (内山繁) was given access to Miles on-stage, backstage and in private moments, including Miles' hotel room. Uchiyama would photograph Miles almost every time he visited Japan in the 1980s."

    [​IMG] Miles on-stage, Tokyo, October 4, '81

    "The release of Miles! Miles! Miles! gives listeners a rare chance to compare Macero's edited version with the original, as the album contains recordings from the October 4, 1981 concert in Tokyo, from which "Jean-Pierre" [on We Want Miles] was taken. During the concert, "Jean-Pierre" was part of a medley, in which the tune segued from the previous track "Fat Time." Just before the thirteenth minute mark in "Fat Time," Miles starts playing the "Jean-Pierre" melody and the band instantly switches over the tune. The Miles! Miles! Miles! version of "Jean-Pierre" shows that Macero edited out the first 25 seconds of the introduction, which mainly consists of tumbling percussion sounds and a guitar riff.

    "On the We Want Miles version, "Jean-Pierre" starts with Miller's thundering bass line and the impact is much stronger than on the unedited version. Macero's editing is superb as the bass line is one of the highlights of this track. Bill Evans claims Miller came up with the bass line but Miller modestly says: "You can't really take credit for what you come up with when you're standing in front of Miles. It was two notes, just two funky-assed notes. I was just working on what he played. Those two notes he played with the melody - the bass really works with that.

    [​IMG]

    "Two mysteries surround "Ursula." The first is whether Miles ever played this track live. Miles! Miles! Miles!'s second track, which lasts for just two minutes, is called "Ursula," yet sounds very different from the track on The Man With The Horn. First, Miller plays a funk-bass riff rather than a walking bass line and Foster's drumming has lost all it's jazz characteristics, basically consisting of a simple bass drum/hi-hat drum pattern. Cinelu accompanies them on conga and bells, and Stern gently plays some sparse chords in the background. Miles' playing is also in a different style from that played on The Man With The Horn.

    "Miles' discographer Jan Lohmann says it doesn't sound like "Ursula" to him, and what's more, the track seems to be a one-off as Lohmann has no other record of it in any of the hundreds of Miles' concerts he has chronicled during the 1980s. The track title begs the question: who was "Ursula"? According to Finnerty she was "A very fine German chick, a friend of Miles." Finnerty and Figueroa recall seeing her around the studio and Finnerty remembers one incident that demonstrates Miles' dry sense of humor. "After the 'Ursula' take, Teo came out into the room and asked 'What do you want to do now, Miles?' Miles looked at him, looked over at her, paused a moment for effect, and, in that trademark hoarse whisper of his, said 'F***.' And that was the end of the session!"

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  22. rxcory

    rxcory proud jazz band/marching band parent

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Side note: I had hoped to have some edited audio samples from this essential album to post for those who don't already have it, but the time constraints of my work schedule prevent me from doing so at this moment.

    Personally I find this album to be so different from We Want Miles that I have to have both. The atmosphere of Miles! Miles! Miles! is much more like a live concert, with more of a sprawling layout: moments of intense fire spaced out among quieter but equally important passages. I like to listen to We Want Miles when I want to hear the punchy stuff, but I usually reach for Miles! Miles! Miles! when I want to lay back, enjoy a drink and listen to a live show.
     
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  23. ciderglider

    ciderglider Forum Resident

    I only have We Want Miles on vinyl, and while I love the music, the sound quality doesn't seem the best. Marcus Miller's bass sometimes sounds a bit distorted.
     
  24. KevinP

    KevinP Forum introvert Thread Starter

    Location:
    Daejeon
    I love We Want Miles. It was the new album when I was just getting into him. Mike Stern smokes. An interview in Guitar Player had him claiming that Davis was making him play like Hendrix, though a later interview with Scofield said that Davis helped him find his own style, or words to that effect.

    Alas, after this, the keyboards dampen my enjoyment of the rest of his output, but this is completely keyboard-less (minus a little doodling before 'Kix').

    Bill Evans released a couple solo albums after this and also joined the rather despised new Mahavishnu before completely falling off my radar at least. (I kind of liked the first Mahavishnu album, but a completely different name would have helped its reputation).
     
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  25. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    For me, Miles Miles Miles! has perhaps the weakest playing by Miles on an official album. He was pretty sick in Japan, and it shows. So I don't really enjoy that album despite the band being on top form.

    I never thought Stern sounded like Hendrix (neither did Pete Cosey). Apparently it was Miles who made him play like he did on these records, Stern was and is a master musician who can adopt his playing to different situations.

    Very much enjoy Bill Evans' tenor solos, as opposed to his soprano work.
    Saw his band in Stockholm ten years ago.
     

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