The Miles Davis album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by KevinP, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Water Babies was released after Agharta, so in a way it makes sense that we haven't discussed it yet.
     
  2. Yesternow

    Yesternow Forum pResident

    Location:
    Portugal
    I'm not saying it's better or worse...

    But I would like to know what makes you choose(BUY) all the independent albums over the complete boxes.

    Assuming that:
    -the independent albums are "common" CDs (not SACD, vinyl, ...).
    -you're acquiring the albums now.

    PS: I'm talking about the boxes that have those albums you mention. I understand that a box like "complete on the corner" is almost impossible to buy.
     
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  3. Musicisthebest

    Musicisthebest Exiled Yorkshireman

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    In the case of Go Ahead John which is available on Big Fun & also The Complete Jack Johnson the 2 versions sound quite different as Teo applied a phase splitter to the Big Fun version.
     
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  4. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Yes, but we went along chronologically and not by release date. The other 2 albums make sense after 1975, since they are hodge-podge compilations. But not this one. A huge oversight on my part. I apologise.
     
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  5. Mook

    Mook Forum Resident

    I got Water Babies in America about 16 years ago, presumably before the box sets came out & certainly before I'd heard of any of them. Circle in the Round I picked up around Christmas time for £10 & I've ordered Directions this week but have yet to receive it.

    I guess they are cheaper & easier to get than the box sets plus they are a nicer listen on CD, as I can play them right through without having to skip/listen through various takes of one tune.
     
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  6. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Trumpet Man/Dapper Dan

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    Great review again, thanks!

    What your journey is telling me very clearly is that while some people have speculated that their may not be enough quality recorded material for a Japan 75 specific bootleg series, there’s enough collectively from 73-75 with the Cosey band to make an 6+ disc set!
     
  7. Beatnik_Daddyo'73

    Beatnik_Daddyo'73 Music Addiction Personified

    ...I have both. Most of the time I like to listen to music in the context of how it was originally released, but there are times I like to hear a full recording session. Depends on the mood.


    Great discussion and run downs of my favorite music. Thanks everyone. :righton:
     
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  8. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Trumpet Man/Dapper Dan

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    Question for the gallery: in a Cosey-band-centered BS release, would you guys want to see Agharta/Pangaea/Dark Magus to be included (alongside unreleased concerts of course)? I personally would like to see them get a fresh remix from the multi tracks like the Fillmore East material did in Vol 3, with all the themes and compositions reindexed and labeled properly, with all the music performed included.

    That would make, I think, for a unique listening/learning experience, even if deep down it’s just a repackaging/remix of the already released albums.
     
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  9. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Well, a remix of Agharta/Pangaea would be necessary if they wanted to include more music (which probably doesn’t exist), or applause etc. But they won’t be able to replicate the magic of the original mix, unless they want to spent literal months doing that, which I think is financially unviable. So I say use the original LP mixes for those and finally release them outside of Japan.

    As for Dark Magus, I don’t know. A remix might be nice, but I don’t know if it contains as many quasi-random mixing decisions as the other two albums, so it might end up less interesting in its remixed form. But at least that one is available in its original form in the Western world.
     
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  10. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Since there are some edits in Dark Magus, it would be great to have a new release of the full concert, if it's possible.
     
  11. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Big Fun also has different mixes of "Great Expectations" and "Lonely Fire." Circle in the Round and Directions also have unique mixes/edits (notably the 26-minute title track of CitR compared to the 33-minute version on the 65-68 box) but these days I think they are mainly for completists.
     
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  12. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Trumpet Man/Dapper Dan

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    You bring up some good points, especially the thought that the original mix does need a US release. I’m really enjoying the bluspecs so far bye, and I’ll make a post about them as a whole once I get through all 4 discs.

    In light of finally hearing these mixes, I think my opinion of the US Domestic CD mixes has changed a bit. I think what they were trying to do was to lift the veil a bit from the dense original mix and present things a little more dry and clear and make it sound more like you’re in the middle of the band.

    And I think it failed, not because it was a bad idea, but because the final product ended up anemic, weak and somehow more muddy in places than the original mix!

    Compare that to Bootleg Series 3, which sounds so good it could be mistaken for a studio album at times. I think if Pangea/Agharta could be remixed with that level of quality I’d be so down for it.

    And then that would give an excuse for them to break down the sets into actual track listings for the first time, which would make it so much easier to do explore the tunes better and do comparative listening.

    I’m loving loving the original mixes and the 40 minute long tracks have their endearing charm, but I personally would welcome a radically different approach to re-releasing these concerts.

    Oh and as far as what I was saying about including more music, I just mean that I would hope any remix/BS release would have the extra percussion/noise music sections exclusive to the Mastersound Japan releases.

    What I’m saying in a nutshell is that I agree that Agharta and Pangaea as ALBUMS should be heard/re-released in their original forms. But I think that Live in Osaka February 1, 1975 as CONCERTS maybe deserves something different.
     
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  13. jfeldt

    jfeldt Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF, CA, USA
    I would enjoy a re-indexing and could handle a remix if it had a good result (like vol.3, which I like)
     
  14. tlake6659

    tlake6659 Senior Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Would be great if we can start filling the blanks with these releases. Which release has what mix:

    Agharta
    Catalog #
    50DP -237-8 - Jpn Remix
    CSCS -5****
    467897/C2K 46799
    SRCS 9128-9
    SRCS 9720-1
    SICP 1230/31
    SICP 20067-8
    SICP 30273-4
    Complete Collection Box Set

    Pangaea
    Catalog #
    50DP -239-40 - Jpn Remix
    CSCS -5350-1
    467087/C2K 46115
    SRCS 9130-1
    SRCS 9752-3
    SICP 1232/3
    SICP 20069-70
    SICP 30275-6
    Complete Collection Box Set
     
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  15. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    Thanks for the review, actually I think the guitarists do stay the same position (Lucas left / Cosey right) - but as there's less definition between their sounds & styles in these '73 concerts, it's easier to mistake one for the other. So Lucas actually plays the first Turnaroundphrase solo with a Cosey like sound, and it's Cosey who takes the solo in the second part (after Tune in 5). I like how Henderson plays the Holly-wuud bassline in this part. There's so much to enjoy in this music.
     
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  16. eeglug

    eeglug Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, USA
    Ha, I think you're onto something there! I'm thrown by the second Turnaroundphrase guitar solos which don't have much of the usual Cosey skittery playing and instead have plenty of what I think of as cliche blues phrasing. There's no doubt though that the Calypso Frelimo guitar solo is crazy Cosey!
     
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  17. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    GREAT idea. I have this list that I've posted a couple of times on this forum, but I haven't married it up to catalog numbers. May help?

    1991 - vinyl mix, first CD issue [apparently incorrect and there's a 1985 issue]
    Agharta
    Pangaea

    1996 - remix to full concert length
    Agharta - full concert (+10min)
    Pangaea - full concert (+2.5min)

    2000 - slightly more compressed version of 1996 issue (the remix version)
    Agharta - full concert (+10min)
    Pangaea - full concert (+2.5min)

    2006 - remastered using DSD
    Agharta - shorter version - sounds remarkably close to the Complete Columbia... version.
    Pangaea - trimmed the 3 mins off to match original running time

    2009 - remastered to match original vinyl sound (presuming therefore it's the regular mix)
    Agharta - 10 mins shorter than 2000 issue
    Pangaea - 30 sec longer than 2006, 90 sec shorter than 2000

    Complete Albums Collection
    Agharta - As 2009 edition
    Pangaea - As 1996 edition
     
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  18. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Trumpet Man/Dapper Dan

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    The 1991 mixes are not the original Japanese vinyl mixes. 1991 Agharta might have the same mix as the US vinyl, but there was no US vinyl of Pangaea.

    Based on a lot of threads I think the 2006 and 2009 are the same as both the Japanese vinyl and each other.

    That leaves the 1996 mix as a different and longer mix.

    I’ve seen mention of a 1985 Japanese CD here, but no specific info about what it contains.
     
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  19. 99thfloor

    99thfloor Senior Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    I am just a lurker, but may I suggest also doing Miles Davis at Newport 1955-1975: The Bootleg Series Vol. 4 to finish off things before "retirement"? (The latest track, "Mtume", is post-Agharta/Pangaea, so it makes sense to do it here.)
     
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  20. eeglug

    eeglug Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, USA
    That Mtume track is part of a concert (Avery Fisher Hall NY 1975) that I have as a grey area boot, so I was going to get to it as part of my survey of live recordings.
     
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  21. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks for the warning- I just got hold of the Vienna '73 recording but haven't got round to listening to it yet.
    So, to clarify- on the Jack Johnson set "Go Ahead John" doesn't have that annoying panning effect on the drums? You mean I could actually listen to the track without getting irritated and turning it off five minutes in?
    Yes please!:righton:
     
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  22. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    That was the plan.
     
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  23. Musicisthebest

    Musicisthebest Exiled Yorkshireman

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Yes, I much prefer the Jack Johnson version (without the panning). It's strange, I used to enjoy "Go Ahead John" with the panning until I heard the version without the panning. Now I can't listen to the panning version at all.
     
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  24. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    I'm the opposite. . . more then forty years of the "Big Fun" version I've never warmed to the box set version.
     
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  25. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    Do either of you remember offhand which takes/parts of JAH on the box set form the album version?
     

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