The Moody Blues album by album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Glenn Christense, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Billo

    Billo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern England
    I do find the vocal harmonies so depressingly thin on SLM - Justin and John got a pretty decent vocal harmony sound together on 'Blue Jays' back in 1975 - but Tony Clarke was producing and Derek Varnals engineering back then so the production quality was superb and supreme - plus you felt the pair really were firing on fully charged creative cylinders then with STRONG songs and a real sense of perspective - both eager to be recording new songs again at last after a few years haitus

    but by 1988 and SLM it seemed as if creativity was very strained (record company pressure presumably was considerable by now) and besides a handful of pleasant songs the rest were 'going through the motions' to sound 'terribly modern' (which for me dates it all so horribly now) with a very 'robotic' vocal harmony sound as well as the synth pop programmed instrumentation aspect

    the vocal harmonies sound is weaker and so very 'samey' voice wise, rather 'lifeless' and minus any great depth or conviction - without Ray's baritone and Mike's deeper voice to flesh out their 'choral' sound and add the texture it's a vocal sound that is rather like say eating a cake baked minus any eggs - try that !!

    so much is missing in the vocal harmonies it's not even 'half the band' vocally ('Blue Jays' tracks like 'Remember Me My Friend' and 'When You Wake Up' vocally kick the SLM songs off the planet !)

    - that reviewer guy in the link above is actually quite wrong as SLM is most certainly NOT just a case of; 'Blue Jays with Edge and Moraz in tow' at all - no way !

    - 'Blue Jays' is not quite but almost in the same league as the 'core seven' re a complete album tho' certainly as good re production/engineering (and compared to SLM had a far far better cover painting !) while the 1975 album songs are vastly superior to the at best really only 'average' (by Moodies standards) and half 'production line fodder' material on the 1988 set - tho' even on auto pilot The Moodies are always at the very least competent even if it's not always to one's taste

    the problem re that guy's review in the link is he clearly doesn't WANT to like any of it at all - so besides maybe a guitar solo here, a middle 8 there, he just does a 'blanket dismissal' job on it - for all it's failings and weaknesses (by 'Moodies so high standards') SLM does still manage have some nice if unspectacular Moodies quality songs and some fine playing...trouble is the attempts to be all 'modern' overpower it musically and again as back in the earlier sixties it's a case of them attempting to be something they just really were not - only 'being themselves' sees The Moodies shine brightest - while locking both Edge and Thomas outside the studio doesn't help - Polydor simply wanted to sell product it seems never mind the band itself (he's got that spot on in his review)

    note they later got in the pretty ladies backup singers to vocally ALTER their concert sound closer to ABBA (- no criticism of them of course) probably to disguise the fact they simply can't vocally do the older 'Moodies' choral sound anymore...

    Once in 1988 after playing SLM I put on TOCCC - and BOY did the 'complete' vocal Moodies sound hit me - and really show what was vocally so badly missing on the latest album
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
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  2. roman.p

    roman.p Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Yeah, it's an unfair hatchet job. But it's an easy target.
    Actually, they were already using them before this, on their 1986 tour.
    Agree with you about the thin vocal sound, although I think it must have been and artistic choice. But you obviously aren't up to speed on vegan baking. This recipe looks tempting, and there's tons more out there: Simple Vegan Chocolate Cake | Minimalist Baker Recipes
     
  3. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block Thread Starter

    Interesting. Do you remember where you read about Justin firmly not wanting a reunion, or Justin not being as close to John as they used to be ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  4. RicZ

    RicZ Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I don't want to add much more to the non so positive postings.
    But unfortunatly this period of Moody Blues music isn't my favourite either.
    Don't know of a fan who claims it is.
    I should have contributed earlier or wait till "Strange Times" which is imo a great return to form.

    Maybe I will add my views on the previous albums briefly.
    Been mostly listening to "Days of Future Passed" because of the recent cd release of the original the mix.
    Good to hear "Evening, Time To get Away" with the fully restored backing vocals.
    Love Ray's two songs on the album.
    His contributions I also miss on the later Moody Blues albums.

    Still I find merit on every Moody Blues album.
    From "Sur La Mer" the album we're discussing now, I really like "Vintage Wine".
    The most natural and Moody Blues sounding song on the album.
    Other great tracks imo are the singles "I Know You're Out There Somewhere"
    and "No More Lies".
    While "Breaking Point" always reminds me of the "Barclay James Harvest" track "Alone In The Night".
    The latter is the better song imo.
    Also from a band missing their key player at the end of the 70's and going more plastic keyboard sounding with mixed results.



    There would be some hope for The Moody Blues after "Sur La Mer" with the song "Highway"
    which sounded more like the Moody Blues of old, and is a wonderfull collaboration between Justin and John.
    Unfortunately that was not on the upcoming album.
     
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  5. Lonesurf

    Lonesurf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pa
    It is interesting the both the Moodies and BJH lost their very important keyboardists in this period that we are discussing. Both bands lost something intrinsic & spiritual ... and eventually suffered artistically.
     
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  6. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Wasn't this around the time when they brought in a second drummer to cover up Edge's drumming as well? Or was that not until after Keys of the Kingdom?
     
  7. RicZ

    RicZ Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Octave, because it is the begining for me.

    I came to the Moody Blues not due to "Nights in White Satin" even tho I knew the song.
    But it was the song "Driftwood" that made me discover the Moody Blues.
    I beginning to doubt my memory, but I always thought that song was released on a special charity album, but maybe it just got played a lot on dutch radio in the mid 80's because it was a popular song here.
    Tho "Had To Fall in Love" was the song that at the time became a minor hit in the Netherlands.
    Anyway I though "Driftwood" was the new A-ha single.
    When Justin sings "Time waits for no-one my love" I really thought it was Morten Harket.
    (turns out A-ha did have a song called "Driftwood" but it was a different song.)
    Not sure how I found out that it was a song by The Moody Blues I was looking for.
    Probably one of the DJ's finally mentioning them.
    Anyway "Octave" has that song and many other for me still magical Moody Blues moments to make it a worthwhile album.

    Not a big fan of "Steppin' In A Slide Zone".
    But love Ray's " Under Moonshine" .
    "Had To Fall in Love" is a beautiful ballad and "I'll be Level With You" a great uptempo rocking song by Edge.
    Wonderfull vocal contributions from John, Justin, Ray and Mike.
    At least I think all of them are on there..
    "Top Rank Suite" might not be a typical Moody Blues songs but it's full of reference to events and places
    regarding their past, how they started out.
    Besides I like the song, also for being different.

    "Survival" wonderfull ballad by John.
    I recently acquired the old U.S. cd release with the 5 minute version of the song.
    Nice to hear a bit more of Justin's guitar.
    Was a bit dissapointed that the 2008 release contained the short version,
    as it was also on the West German cd release I also had.
    So now I have three versions of Octave, but non of which I will sell because they each have something unique.
    The West German has a nice extended booklet, while the U.S. is just one fold out page,
    but as said containing the long "Survival".

    "I'm Your Man" I don't mind and finally we have two magical songs concluding the album.
    Even tho it's not as strong as what came before
    I really like the album and it still has enough of the classic Moody Blues sound imo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  8. RicZ

    RicZ Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Going back one album - The Other Side Life

    I really consider all the albums up to and including "The Present" as classic Moody Blues albums.
    With "The Other Side of Life" they strayed too much from their classic sound.
    On "Long Distance Voyager" and "The Present" they sounded refreshed.
    The Moody Blues sound brought up to date.
    Partly thanks to Patrick Moraz his contributions.
    On "The Other Side Life" not only Ray Thomas was missing and the absense of Mike Pinder was felt,
    but I also what Patrick contributed became less and less, as Justin and John took on the keyboard duties more and more themselves.

    After "Octave" I bought and borrowed more albums.
    Mostly borrowed them from an uncle of mine
    "In Seach of The Lost Chord" was one "The Other Side of Life" was another.
    I remember being excited when I heard that magical introduction.
    Thinking here comes another special song like "The Voice" from "Long Distance Voyager".
    Then the dissapointment when I heard the rest of the song.
    It's not that I don't like pop songs.
    I knew they didn't always sounded like on their early albums.
    "Octave" was already different and had ballads and the like.
    Still, this was not what I expected.
    I kind of liked it, but it was not as promised.

    Then the rest...
    and then turning the record over and there was the title track.
    This was finally the sound I was hoping to hear.
    At least it sounded somewhat familiar of what I loved about the Moody Blues,
    and it had for me something magical.
    I only listened to first song on Side B and once in awhile the first song on Side A
    before returning it to my uncle.

    Still feel that way,
    the worse Moody Blues album imo.
     
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  9. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    I have Sur La Mer, in fact I have every studio LP they put out through Sur La Mer. It has been a long time since I listened to it, or anything after Octave for that matter. However I just YouTubed Your Wildest Dreams and I actually think it's pretty good, certainly vastly preferable to any of those much-too-speeded-up synthpop hits from Long Distance Voyager.

    If someone had told me in 1972 that there would be a Moody Blues album that in 2017 would have been out for a quarter century and I still would not have purchased it, I would have told them they were crazy. But I've never heard Keys to the Kingdom or anything after Sur La Mer.
     
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  10. RicZ

    RicZ Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I do like "In Your Wildest Dreams".
    And I might agree that I even like it more then "Gemini Dream".
    It was just not what I had expected at the time.
    I was blown away by "In Search of the Lost Chord" and I already had the "This Is the Moody Blues" compilation album myself.
    I was glad to hear that "The Actor" lasted longer on Lost Chord then on "This Is..".
    But I couldn't believe my ears hearing songs like "Talking Talking" or "Rock "N" Roll Over You".
    This was not the music I was hoping for.
    I do like "I Just Don't Care" however, forgot about that one.
    That is actually a good song.

    You are only three albums short of a complete Moody Blues collection.
    I certainly would give "Strange Times" a try.
    Even "Keys of the Kingdom" is better then "The Other Side of Life" imo.
    and "December" is nice to have as well.
    But "Strange Times" I think is a must hear.
     
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  11. Billo

    Billo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern England
    Agreed re 'Strange Times'

    the key point is quality melodies - The Moodies 'tuneless' songs are those most people don't warm to, where as those with memorable or even just nice melodies are those we are drawn to and cling in the memory thereafter - and The Moodies were so good at great melodies especially when Mike Pinder was their in house arranger

    from 'Octave' on albums tend to get patchier but while there might be a song or two you find less than there were always songs that stood out as either terrific or likeable and over time these have all grown in our affection as time adds a nostalgic aspect to them

    the very '80s' song production I think imprisons some songs to an extent to a very specific point in time, duly dating them more, where as the more classically stanced and rock flavoured songs have a more timeless feel about them - be it from the core seven or later Moraz and 'post-Moraz' era

    much of the 80's production aspect is specifically down to Hayward and Lodge's instructions - Moraz and Visconti acting on their wishes

    Visconti has said Moraz did contribute a lot to TOSOL album while probably Hayward and Lodge did rather more on SLM with all the 'programming' etc

    we do know later on KOTK they 'sent' for Moraz....all the way from West Coast USA to England...purely to play the intro to John's song 'Magic' !

    I belong to a Moodies fans website 'Moody Blues Attitude' which posted a recent interview - November 2017 - in 'PROG' magazine with Justin Hayward where Justin in a 'Q & A' interview firmly rules OUT any prospect of a reunion with Ray Thomas and Mike Pinder !

    in another interview in Australia Justin states; 'There will NOT be any new (studio) Albums' and that he and John are solo artists really (!)

    a number of times members of that website who see the group on their USA tours often have noticed that Justin and John appear to be 'cool' towards each other now, and their onstage 'friendship' moments (jamming away guitars together etc) are a staged thing repeated at show after show - neither mention each other much in interviews now (they speak more about Mike Pinder than each other !) while solo releases seem to 'try to outdo' each other re timing etc

    so fans have suspected the relationship between them is not what it once was back then...

    re Moodies / BJH - Justin now says he can't recall how 'Poor Man's Moody Blues' even went !!

    ironic both lost their 'backbone' keyboard mellotron guru Mike and Woolly in 1978-79...who each gave them so much both in overall trademark keyboard sound and deeper thought provoking songs

    both groups then went more 'radio friendly' and lighter in content..

    Bias Boshell played keyboards for both bands

    both bands eventually became a trio !

    John Lees and Les Holroyd later drifted apart too...

    Justin Hayward and John Lees were both massively underrated guitarists

    both groups were on Polydor later on

    Pip Williams has produced both groups

    both bands were never liked by mainstream music critics - who dismissed The Moodies as being 'pretentious' and BJH as being nothing more than a 'Poor Man's Moody Blues' (!)

    both bands were MUCH loved by the public worldwide however, Moodies especially in the USA and BJH especially in Europe - in both cases maybe more so than in their homeland of the United Kingdom (despite a loyal core following at home for each group)

    they touched on each other's musical idiom of course but were quite distinct in their styles and sound (like say; Beach Boys / Four Seasons / Hollies as vocal harmony groups - or Everly Brothers / Simon & Garfunkel as vocal harmony duos etc)

    a track on BJH album 'Turn of The Tide' (track two or three I think) sounds not unlike The Moodies later song 'River of Endless Love' - purely a co-incidence - while of course BJH 'Poor Man's Moody Blues' is based upon 'Nights in White Satin' (intentionally so)

    the debut BJH album had a spoken passage on 'Dark Now My Sky' which was very Moodies-ish

    so each band have sounded like each other at times - love Wooly's mellotron on BJH 'Crazy City' (1974) which is in a similar style to Mike's on Moodies tracks

    in the 80's The Moodies could sound quite like BJH at times as well

    I have full album collections of both bands - Moodies have kinda 'faded away' as a recording band while BJH broke into two camps (sadly drummer Mel Pritchard died some years back after a heart attack)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  12. roman.p

    roman.p Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    This reminds me of a housemate in the early '80s who liked the Moodies but commented he hated those Hayward melodies that verge on the tuneless — the example he cited was "Meanwhile": "Just in a simple conversation . . ." That's just two notes. He does it again in "I Know You're Out There Somewhere": "The mist is lifting slowly" is all one note. There may be other songs. I hadn't really thought of it before then, but it obviously really irked my friend. Anyone else have this reaction or even notice this?
     
  13. Billo

    Billo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern England
    The Justin Hayward interview in 'PROG' magazine was in the September 2017 issue not November - someone just posted it on that forum this month

    asked re the chance of any future reunion with Pinder and Thomas Justin replies firmly; 'NO'

    he then goes on to point out 'those guys haven't played in a long time you can't just put people on stage and expect them to play...'

    he adds he never wanted The Beatles to reform and says IF you put the ('core seven') five back together you would just have FIVE REALLY OLD GUYS and people would then say they were not as good etc...

    He has a point of course - however at the moment we have THREE REALLY OLD GUYS ! (the drummer for some time now duly being 'propped up' by his second drummer too !)

    Pinder and Thomas recently managed to play perfectly well for a track on John Lodge's solo album too - both sounded as if more capable than Graeme Edge now is ...

    of course Ray Thomas health would be a major point, while Mike Pinder wouldn't want to tour (he didn't back in 1978 for 'Octave'), so it would always be a 'one off' for Mike - who said on his old forum a few years ago he once offered to join them onstage to read a bit of poetry and play a song maybe - but he never got any reply from The Moodies back then !

    If Justin were up for it I believe it could happen with Ray (if up to it) and Mike simply 'slotting in' alongside the current Moodies touring outfit - Norda Mullen doing the flute and Ray waving a cheery tambourine (sat on a stool if need be) and perhaps doing a bit of flute work and singing - Mike joining the harmony vocals, singing lead on a song or two of his and adding his distinctive keyboards to those of Alan Hewitt etc - film the show for Blu Ray/DVD/CD release etc...


    I do suspect if it were up to John Lodge it might well possibly happen - John seemed enthusiastic about it re the DOFP 50th anniversary a while back (why get in Jeremy Irons floating head for the poems in concert ?...when Mike could have at least recorded a new recitation or use his original ?)

    I do get the impression Justin now very much runs the show and perhaps in truth he does NOT want anyone from the past eclipsing audience interest from the central figure onstage - yes ??? (I hope I'm wrong there but do wonder....)

    Any Hall of Fame induction show might be very interesting, as if Ray and Mike attended would they BE ALLOWED to perform with the current touring Moodies ???
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  14. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    I'm sure you're aware, but I'll add that Wooly Wolstenholme also passed away a few years ago.
     
  15. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    I've heard Strange Times; I borrowed it from my brother some years back, probably in the latter part of the '90s. I intended to mention this in my previous post but forgot. I don't recall being particularly impressed by it, and I have no recollection of any of the material.

    I'm not sure how many times I listened to it, but it may not matter. I borrowed the famous Alanis Morrisette CD Jagged Little Pill from a co-worker and listened to it three times, and I don't recall any of that one either.
     
  16. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block Thread Starter

    Thanks for the info.
    I believe in situations like this (as far as reunions go) it ultimately comes down to money.

    The three remaining key band members split the money three ways (assuming Graeme still gets an equal share ) and all the fill in players are on salary.
    All these years later the vast majority of the general public really has no idea Ray and Mike are old key missing members of the band .

    So, it's not like the band will make tons more money with the two guys back.
    I assume then that Justin, John and Graeme have no desire to split the money pie five ways at this point rather than three ways.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  17. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block Thread Starter

    No Strange Times talk! :tsk:
    We haven't gotten there yet.:realmad: ;)
     
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  18. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    Fine, but I was answering another post with a mention of it. Several LPs were discussed, if not all of them.
     
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  19. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block Thread Starter

    I'm sorry , I'm going to have to give you a detention and you'll have to stay after school. :D

    Obviously, with the super mad face followed by the wink I'm just semi kidding, but we only have one more album to go before we get to Strange Times so I'd kind of like people to hold their thoughts until that album is posted.

    We have so few people responding now that we are well beyond the core seven that I'd like the few of us still interested in the band to still have something to talk about when we get to Keys Of the Kingdom, Strange Times and December .:D
     
  20. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    I totally understand your point. But if you want to try your luck at rounding up a herd of cats, don't let me stop you! :D
     
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  21. rushed again

    rushed again Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Sur La Mer. An associate of mine...at the time, had Graeme over his house for dinner. I recall his photo's with Graeme were great.
    And yes...even though not a fan of this release, I was big time jealous when he was showing me those dinner pics. :)
     
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  22. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block Thread Starter

    It's not really a problem for me.
    I'm a cat wrangler from way back when . :D
     
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  23. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    If they could just play a few songs for the rock and roll hall of fame that would fulfil anything I could hope for, honestly. I don't them them to get on the road.
     
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  24. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Well, yes, there were only 4 and a half months of the 90s left after its release.
     
  25. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block Thread Starter

    Yes, I wouldn't expect them to tour .
    If they all play a couple of their songs at the hall of fame it will be great .
     

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