They are crushed. No need for waveforms, if you know what a mostly solid rectangle looks like then you have a good idea.. The original AM+'s can be had, at least in my area, in the $1 or $2 bin. No reason IMHO to bother with the dog poo SQ of the 2003's.....
Now that's these versions? I've read reports all over the board. You say they're brickwalled, another thread from some other forum says they're fine if a little bright. I'd like to see waveforms anyway. This is from another thread, it won't go into the multiquote thing. JWB: "Most forum members pefer "Message In A Box". The 2003 discs sound okay but they're a bit too loud and bright, kind of like the Stones Virgin remasters or the Hendrix remasters." The Virgin Stones are the preferred masterings of them, and I'm not too bothered by the 2009s which are considerably more compressed.
I haven't heard the 2011 Nevermind, but the 2009 Rolling Stones ones are probably worse than the 2003 Police ones. However, I wouldn't encourage getting the 2003 ones. After a/b-ing them against earlier masterings, the earlier ones won every time. There are no bonus tracks on the 2003 ones, so no reason to get them when better, earlier versions are available for much less money.
The only thing I'm really concerned about is that I won't feel sick after listening to a few songs (which only that Nevermind has managed to do). I have only heard about five Police songs and I want to get into the catalog. Being a CD collector I really like the packaging on the 2003s, and I just want to make sure that they aren't completely squared. I don't mind compression and boosting, as long as it doesn't render the music unlistenable. I can tolerate those 2009 Stones discs - hell, I didn't even realize they were that compressed until I actually looked at the waveform. Basic point is - I'm on the fence about getting into the band and I just want to know if the most readily available versions are completely squared. There isn't a good used music shop for a hundred miles, only Best Buys and FYEs and the like, and I don't want to order older versions online when versions that appeal to me more as a CD collector are so easily available.
If you really like collecting CDs, buy both the old and new versions. You'll have the snazzy packaging, plus for $1-3 extra bucks you'll have crappier looking packaging with better sounding music. [But, and I hate to encourage buying crappy masterings, if the Stones 2009s are ok with you, I can't imagine the 2003 Police ones will bother you. They are not that good, but I've heard much worse.]
I suppose what I'm getting at is that I'd like to see pictures of the waveforms of the 2003 redbooks. Does anybody happen to own them? And would they be willing to help me out?
I put the classic releases in new jewel cases, the inserts were in good shape. So better sounding, and good looking, like me!
Guess I didn't notice this. And yeah, I am not in any way an audiophile, which explains it. The Nevermind is the only CD I've ever had to replace with an older version. I wish the 2009 Stones had more dynamics, but I'm not about to hunt down all of the 1994 versions, especially since they're in such high demand now, when I can tolerate them. And I listen to lots of other masterings that get flak around here for being loud, but they don't bother me at all (the 2003 AC/DC ones come to mind, I think they sound fantastic). So who can tell? I think I'll try them out. If it ends up being really bad I'll come back. But from what I've heard (apart from what Ricks said) they are not squared, just loud. That shouldn't be a problem for me. Thanks for the responses by the way.
That is how I feel as well. I was 15 when this album came out, so I'm perhaps biased toward that more than the earlier albums.
Sorry I could not do the waveforms for you. I still have the 2003 Police CDs, just don't know how to run waveforms. I'm from the "trust your ears" camp anyway. My guess is you will be happy with these, but I wouldn't recommend them to others. Personally, I'm a little bummed that I traded in most of my older Police CDs for what I thought at the time would be newer and better remasterings, only to realize after a/b-ing the only one I'd kept (Zenyatta) that the old ones were much better. Regatta also did not sound very good a/b-ed against my vinyl copy (which is better than any of the CDs; man, Stewart's drumming and cymbals in particular sound spectacular on vinyl). Now I've been gradually rebuying the old ones when I find them used. (At least I got all of my 2003s used as well).
I'm not an audiophile, so I haven't bought multiple versions of CDs except in a few instances, and in those cases it was because the CDs that I had were old hand-me-downs and the remasters were substantially better (to my ears) anyway, like the 2009 Beatles remasters. Again, Nevermind was the only time I regressed to a previous version. Also, for the waveforms, if you have Audacity, go to the file menu, click import audio, and select the files. They'll show up. Screencap or Snipping Tool that. If you don't have Audacity (or any such program) I can understand where your problem lies, haha. And I really appreciate the help.
Why do you want to look at waveforms, do you listen with your eyes? You'll have to listen closely through quality playback equipment to know for sure if any dynamics processing has been detrimental. There's no way around it. Comparing other titles with the same mastering credit is futile as expectations on loudness will be different for different artist.
My suggestion is you buy one 2003 remaster of your favorite Police album, and then buy a cheap copy of the original mastering or perhaps even a David Collins 1993 version as well. Do an A/B or an A/B/C with your ears, your equipment, and your personal biases about what sounds good. I've seen horrible looking waveforms where the cd sounds fine to me, and vice versa - YMMV.
Gotcha. No Audacity here, so there lies the rub. I don't necessarily want to have multiple versions on CD either, but in some cases I like to have both a newer, crappier mastering with good bonus tracks as well as an older better one. Of course some new remasters are improvements (Floyd, for example, and the new Zeppelins are improvements over the 1993s), and some of the bad ones are way more egregious than others. I am more cautious about trading in my old versions than I was years ago, especially given that the trade-in values on CDs aren't what they used to be.
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. And I totally agree on the Floyds and Zeppelins, those sound incredible. I heard the original Welcome To The Machine from the Hipgnosis music video and it sounded so awful. But thanks again for the information. I don't own the albums yet, and since the sources I've heard from vary from "they sound good" to "crushed", I wanted a picture to compare. I listen to some that people say are awful and that I don't think are that bad, but, as I've mentioned before, I will never be able to recover from the Nevermind. Since most of the responses have been vague, I wanted to see the waveforms to have a more concrete definition. No, I don't listen with my eyes, haha. The thing is, I only know a few Police songs and was just wondering if the recent versions were really, really terrible. Since the general consensus is that I can tolerate worse, I think I'm going to pick one or two up and decide for myself. But I don't have any point of reference - I just want to make sure that I don't buy a version that is going to completely sour my experience from the start.
I can attest to it. I have the Outlandos '93 remaster and it sounds great. Regatta and Zenyatta I have on first edition vinyl and love how they sound.
I had the 03 Synchronicity for two days when it came out, I gifted it on the third, as Ricks stated grab the old ones for dirt cheap and be done with it
Wowza...That is simply not correct from my many years experience on this forum - my guess is that is one person's opinion likely based on too small a sampling. Very few here have anything positive to say about the 2003's and the best most can offer for MIAB is it 's passable. If you like Dynamics and want a more audiophile quality sound for the Police I recommend reading the last 500 post's in this thread. Sure it will take 40-50 minutes but it's a fun read and oddly enough for this forum somewhat friendly. Or <ego> you can ready my latest recap based on years of comparing Police CD's/SACD's to death. Please note I value Dynamics, Natural Sound, and the overused adjective warmth in my audio so my opinions are not for those who have no interest in those attributes - This post <ego> Oh - the discogs link you posted looks like the 2003 to me
If you think the 2009 Rolling Stones remasters are listenable, you'll have absolutely zero problems with the 2003 Police remasters. They are less compressed, and certainly not in Nevermind remaster territory, but as far as Police CDs go, they're probably the worst sounding. Everybody says "get the original CDs, they sound better and are cheaper", but it looks like you don't want to track them so by all means get the 2003s if you absolutely need the music *right now*. I don't have waveforms, but here are DR values that might do the trick: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year?artist=The police Line them up by year and look for the 2003 date.
When I started getting into the Police, I was fortunate enough to find the original US CD's of Outlandos and Ghost. The other 3 albums ranged from passable (US for US Zenyatta) to mediocre (1993 Synchronicity and 2003 Reggatta). Getting the originals of the latter 2 albums was an absolute quest that took almost a year, and in that time, those remasters served me well. Now, they just sit on my "reject shelf" looking pretty along with my other less-than-stellar remasters, like the Rush, Genesis, and Yes ones. Like everyone else has said, there are much worse sounding discs than either wave of Police remasters, but I guarantee that you'll be spoiled once you hear an original or Platinum SHM. @UltraSoundSquid, purchase whatever mastering you find first and good luck in your search!
Hey UltraSoundSquid, There was certainly a time when many forum members were praising the Message In A Box (MIAB) release. Then as sometimes happens on this forum, someone chimed to criticize them and the momentum shifted against them. I've even seen a comment on a thread where one member traded in his original CD's and got the MIAB set based upon the praises for MIAB that he had read on the forum up to that point, only to be frustrated when the tide turned against the MIAB later. Ricks is right in that many of the current day comments are negative towards the MIAB, while there are still a good percentage of members who enjoy the MIAB tracks. I think the criticism, at least as far as dynamics, of the MIAB remasters is wildly exaggerated. I understand that there are some complaints about EQ or "glitches" with the MIAB set, but some of the same issues also occur in other versions as well. For example on dynamics, the original U.S. CD3312 of Regatta De Blanc has a DR15. The MIAB Regatta tracks have a DR12. Given that forum members are in love with the new Zeppelin remasters that are approximately DR9/10, I certainly don't think a remaster with DR12 is horrible. From the DR database, it appears that the 2003 remaster of Regatta has a DR11 (I don't have that one). You wanted waveforms: Walking On The Moon...Original US CD3312: Walking On The Moon...MIAB: Walking On The Moon....2003 remaster (borrowed from another thread here on the forum): Ricks is certainly The Police expert here and am not looking to contradict or debate anything here. I'm just trying to provide some info/perspective based upon the level of interest that you seem to indicate with The Police. Bottom line is that I do not think you could go wrong with the originals (although some were mastered with very low volume and this can create an issue if you a spinning several CD's on a carousel type player. If you are playing digitally, then ReplayGain can take care of issue that for you). I also think you would enjoy the MIAB set and it gives you some tracks not found on the original CD's. I've never heard the 2003 remasters, but if you don't mind other modern day remasters as stated, then you will probably be okay with the 2003's. I would still recommend you find one of the earlier versions though. Hope this helps a little.
I only have the Plat. Synchronicity, but I do have the 2003 Zenyatta SACD. It sounds great; amazingly close to my US vinyl.
