Sidebar: This release from Mr. Copeland is its own kind of genius Okay - back to the Police discussion! Cheers, Paul
Can anyone help me correlate which mastering of Ghost in the Machine in the chart below matches my CD? I can't seem to find my original CD but I'm pretty sure it is an early US A&M pressing. I ripped it with dbpoweramp so I don't have the EAC peak levels but here's the DR numbers: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: The Police / Ghost In The Machine {Original US} -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR16 -5.12 dB -23.48 dB 2:59 01-Spirits in the Material World DR15 -7.17 dB -24.86 dB 4:22 02-Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic DR14 -6.42 dB -22.83 dB 3:43 03-Invisible Sun DR16 -6.72 dB -24.18 dB 2:53 04-Hungry For You (J'aurais Toujours Faim De Toi) DR16 -6.35 dB -24.28 dB 5:59 05-Demolition Man DR17 -6.53 dB -25.37 dB 3:43 06-Too Much Information DR13 -7.97 dB -22.84 dB 3:10 07-Rehumanize Yourself DR17 -6.24 dB -25.22 dB 4:47 08-One World (Not Three) DR13 -8.91 dB -23.87 dB 2:47 09-Omegaman DR15 -7.69 dB -26.54 dB 3:34 10-Secret Journey DR14 -9.31 dB -24.96 dB 3:12 11-Darkness -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 11 Official DR value: DR15 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 766 kbps Codec: FLAC ================================================================================
The DR peak levels x can be translated into EAC peak values, save for a rounding at the decimal place: EAC peak level = 2^(x/6). Yours matches the green column (Japan 38 XB, Japan for US, US for US early DADC CD 3730).
Much appreciated Andreas! I usually rip stuff with dbpoweramp because it's much quicker the way I have it configured but it makes it difficult to do comparisons at times. Your formula is the perfect solution!
Funny you found that CD in Alabama. If memory serves me correct that’s where the Copeland family originates from.
I found the Japan for EU Ghost In The Machine CDAMLX 63730 today. It’s matrix is “DIDZ-10071 31A2” and it’s made by CBS/Sony. Its peak levels match those of the Japanese 38XB (green column).
Hi guys, great thread! I've gone through so much info online about Synchronicity that a lot of it is getting mixed up in my head. I'm now having a hard time finding a post confirming what I think I've read before, so I figured I'd just just ask. Is there one or are there multiple versions on SHM-CD? I know the flat transfer Platinum SHM-CD is well regarded and probably considered the best version of the album. I grabbed an SHM-CD version but it's not the Platinum and I think I grabbed the wrong one. It's UICY-25089. This is a relatively poor version of Synchronicity, correct? I think it uses the 2003 remasters. Or is that just the SHM-SACD that uses this remaster? If I grabbed one of the bad ones, I think I'm going to replace it with the Platinum SHM and also the Mofi version. Sometimes these forums are great and other times they are like a trap. I went into this wanting one copy on CD but now after reading about the album I also want to pick up an early Japan for U.S. and/or a Japan for Japan copy but I think I'm just going to limit myself to just the Platinum and Mofi versions. It'll be fun listening to both of them. Maybe an early Japan made copy will turn up at one of my local used CD stores for under $10 and I'll grab it then.
Multiple SHM versions - The ones with the 2013 DSD transfer are UICY-40043 (the platinum SHM cd), UICY-76029 (the HR cutting SHM cd), UIGY-15031 (the SACD version of the same transfer), and supposedly the latest MQA cd (UHQCD, not SHM, though) - UICY-40209 The other SHM versions (cd and sacd) are the early 2000's remaster.
That is the deluxe, believe it or not. It includes all of the 10", the singles, one-offs and at least two unreleased tracks from the same time period. From Wikipedia: Kollected Works is a compilation of songs that Stewart Copeland wrote under the pseudonym Klark Kent released on CD in 1995. It includes all the songs from Klark Kent, four "Klark Kent" non-album single tracks ("Too Kool to Kalypso", "Office Girls", "Thrills" and "Office Talk"), a new version of "Love Lessons", a song originally recorded by Colts (Stewart Copeland and Derek Holt) in 1986, and two previously unreleased tracks - "Strange Things Happen" and "Stay Ready". There may not be too much left over from this time period. Right after they performed Don't Care on Top Of The Pops in 1978 as Klark Kent, Roxanne became popular, and Stewart went back into The Police (mostly) full time. Although - maybe Stewart has some demos or something he could put on a second disc. Who knows? Cheers, Paul
Yeah - assuming the Klark Kent tracks aren't Police demos already! Hopefully, there's something left over worth releasing. Stewart seems to keep pretty good archives of stuff. Cheers Paul
For Ghost in the Machine, I'd never actually heard the Japan 38XB/original US DADC mastering - the one with the lowest peak levels. I just was able to do so, and to compare it with the West German/revised US mastering. My observations on three tracks: Spirits in the Material World: Both very similar, but I think the snare drum sounds very slightly better on the 38XB/original US mastering. Invisible Sun: I prefer the WG/revised US - the overall impact and dynamics seem notably better on that one to me. One World (Not Three): I greatly prefer the WG/revised US - the cymbals are distorted on this recording, but they sound more distorted on the 38XB/original US. And there is far more, and better, bass impact on the WG/revised US. Now, it is important to note that these two masterings of course have very different levels. ReplayGain seems to indicate that the WG/revised US is about 8dB louder on average. But because the masterings are different, that doesn't necessarily or reliably translate into equal perceived volume - the 38XB/original US might need to be turned up more than 8dB relative to the WG/original US. But my listening impressions noted above are based on a comparison with the 38XB/original US turned up a full 12dB louder. I even tried making the 38XB/original US 15dB louder with One World (Not Three), and my listening impression was not altered. So for me the WG/revised US is the better-sounding mastering. YMMV of course. This is just my $.02 with my equipment, room, and ears.
Nice write up - Can't go wrong with either and the D32Y for me sits along side the 2 you compared. It you want a 30 second sample or 2 from the D32Y just let me know which track(s).
So where does my lowly 97 levels come into play (Denon/Later DADC) ? I've enjoyed it so I never went further.
Your "97"-level CD is the WG/Denon US mastering, just slightly level-shifted downward. I used to have both the "97" CD you have, and the full-on WG, and they sounded identical. I kept the WG only for collectibility reasons (it came in a smooth-sided jewel case and the rear insert has no barcode). But if I'd never come across that WG, I'd still happily own that "97" CD.
So here's something interesting. I just compared the D32/33/25Y with the WG by loading up the each of the three tracks I compared earlier (1, 3, and 8) into Audacity. For track 1, Spirits in the Material World, I amplified the D33Y to match the level of the WG, and then I inverted one of them and mixed the result - in other words, I did a null test. And they nulled out perfectly. But for tracks 3 and 8, they did not null out, even after trying to fiddle with the level matching. I suspect the D33Y might be a level-shift of the WG, but with each track level-shifted by a different amount. Or, alternatively, the WG could be the D33Y mastering turned up, creating all those 100% peaks. However, if that were the case, I would expect that Spirits in the Material World would not have nulled out completely (because if the WG created clipping it wouldn't null out with the D33Y where the clipped parts were). At any rate, if the D33Y really is a different mastering than the WG, I can say that, for whatever reason, they didn't change the mastering of Spirits in the Material World, and any other remastering on the other tracks would have to have been quite subtle. I am starting to think that there might really only be two '80s mastering of this CD: The original 38XB/DADC, and then all the others, with variations within that 2nd group just being level-shifts of one kind or another.
Hey, what's up? Not sure if this helps you, but: I know that for other CDs by other artists, I have seen a level shift in all but a few tracks. The reason for this is because for those tracks, if shifted by the same amount, would exceed 100%.
Thanks George! Yeah, that's what I was thinking. In this case all the tracks are level-shifted, and I was thinking along the lines you have stated here - perhaps they were level-shifted by different amounts, to avoid clipping. (100% peaks sometimes show up as clipped in Audacity, but they are not actually clipped.) But because I've only been able to successfully null out one track so far between the D33Y and the WG, I can only say that I strongly suspect these two CDs are just level-shifted versions of the same mastering - I can't say for sure that there are no other mastering differences between those two when it comes to the other tracks on the album. If I get the time to compare some of the 8 tracks I haven't yet compared, and one or more of them nulls out, then I will feel more confident saying these two CDs share the identical mastering.
Sorry for the multiple posts today, but I've now confirmed that for Ghost in the Machine, the D33/32/25Y mastering is identical to the West German/US Denon mastering, just level-shifted on a track-by-track basis. (It's a track-by-track thing, as George suggested above.) I've been able to totally null out 5 of the tracks, including the two tracks I wasn't able to null out before. (For whatever reason, I have to amplify some of the D33Y tracks .01dB more than Audacity says I "should" have to in order to precisely level-match them. Once I do that, every track nulls out 100% exactly.) Haven't done all 11 tracks, but from the ones I've done, it appears that each track on the D33/32/25Y is 1.2 to 1.8dB quieter than its counterpart on the WG/Denon mastering. Also, interestingly enough, the differences seem to be exactly in increments of 0.2dB - 1.2dB, 1.4dB, 1.6dB, and 1.8dB. This is puzzling to me - because logic dictates that the Japan D33Y mastering, with its more variable peak levels, would have been the original mastering, and the WG/Denon mastering, with 8/11 tracks peaking at a uniform 100%, would've simply turned up the D33Y mastering until most of the tracks peaked at 100%, leaving the 3 quieter/less peaky tracks slightly below 100%. However, if that were the case, one would expect that most, or at least some, of the 100%-peak tracks on the WG mastering would have some clipping as a result. Even if it were minor clipping, it would show up when one tried to run a null test between the D33Y and the WG. But the null tests I've run are 100% - not even a single peak or sample fails to null out once the levels are matched. Now, I guess the WG engineer could have individually level-adjusted each track unit it just reached 100% but did not go over into clipping. However, in that case, it seems awfully strange that the WG and D33Y tracks always differ by an increment of 0.2dB - what are the odds that all those D33Y tracks could be turned up in increments of 0.2dB and reach exactly 100% peak level with no clipping? For that to be true, the peak levels of the 8 tracks in question would have had to have been exactly 0.2dB apart in volume on the original mastering. That seems rather unlikely, doesn't it? So, even though it might seem counter-intuitive at first, I can only conclude that the WG/Denon mastering - which probably first appeared on the WG CD I have (solid aluminum hub, smooth sided case, no barcode) - predates the Japan D33Y mastering. If that is the case, then the Japanese engineer must have attenuated the WG tracks until they were happy with the relative levels - and maybe they did the attenuation in increments of 0.2dB, either for convenience or perhaps because the equipment they were using at the time had 0.2dB as a standard digital volume increment...? Either way, the question of which is the true source mastering is not entirely clear - but they are indeed level-shifted variants of the identical digital master.
While not as conclusive as a null, one thing I do is load up two tracks in Audacity in separate windows. Then, for each, first select all, then under Analyze choose Plot Spectrum. Then I switch back and forth between the two, comparing the EQ curve. Not sure if you use a PC, but in Windows 10 you can use the taskbar to show a popup of each EQ curve and by moving the cursor right and left you can switch between them.
