The reason I really hate vinyl, off-center records*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Sheffield Steel, Jul 1, 2013.

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  1. Sheffield Steel

    Sheffield Steel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    My number one gripe with vinyl is the tendency to stamp records with the centre hole ever-so-slightly off-centre. This makes the pitch wobble ever increasingly as the stylus makes its way across each side of the record. By the time the last track is reached on either side, the wobbling is often enough to make me feel seasick and I have to terminate the listening.

    It must be a hard thing to mass produce records with the centre hole exactly (or as near as damn-it) in the middle. But to me, it doesn't matter how good the turntable is, how good the vinyl material is, or how good the mastering is, if the thing can't even play at an even and constant speed.

    If you have never experienced this phenomenon it means either a) you have a perfect record collection or b) you're tone deaf. To test this, play a record on your turntable, and study the stylus/tonearm. If it sways from side to side rather than gracefully moving slowly from outside to middle, it's "b"!
     
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  2. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    Out of 600 records in my collection, there are maybe three where this is audible.

    And I'm not tone deaf.

    You, however, are probably hyper sensitive to the pitch variation.
     
  3. Jayski

    Jayski Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    In all my years of record playing/collecting, I've only seen a handful of records with the hole off center.
     
  4. Ive heard that but in my entire 45 years of collecting and having up to 10,000 albums at any one point (now about 5000), I think I have had only four or five wobblers. Now there have been other problems but maybe I'm just lucky.
     
  5. Thurenity

    Thurenity Listening to some tunes

    I have just a few that were bad enough that it became audible. That's when I use this:

    [​IMG]

    Better than non-fill in that it's at least "fixable".
     
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  6. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    I've seen very few records that DON'T wobble, it's just that some wobble more that others. And that bothers me because my pitch perception is phenomenal. So what I do is file the center hole, re-clean the record, and then just tap it into correct centering by watching the tone arm and the edge of the turntable platter. Vinyl was very good... it just wasn't perfect, and we have to accomodate its minor flaws.
     
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  7. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Wow! I'd say about half of my vinyl is like this, and that doesn't even include the 45s. I can hear it too. For 45s, I spend lots of time trying to center the record so that there is no wow.
     
  8. Dougr33

    Dougr33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    I never saw that many back when I was into vinyl(and, since back then I was buying new, would return as defective), but it was the reason Nakamichi made their Dragon turntable. Solution looking for a problem perhaps.
     
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  9. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I used to attempt to drill out the center hole. However, if you look closely, you will note that LPs suffering from lateral wobble also tend to suffer from vertical wobble as well. Face it, this is nearly an inherent flaw of LPs and the more sensitive you are to pitch variation, the worse it gets. Score one for the CD.
     
  10. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ, USA

    And there's nothing wrong with that. For instance, there are also people who are hypersensitive to tastes and colors. It's a shame that it impacts the OP and your enjoyment of this hobby the way it does, though. :(
     
    Heckto35 likes this.
  11. thepluralofvinyl

    thepluralofvinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Music City, USA
    I tend not to notice it (audibly) on most LPs but, like Mazzy, I spend a lot of time trying to center large hole 45s. Personally, it's sort of the charm of vinyl though... it's like live music, each show's a little different, each record's a little different. I've only had one or two I couldn't listen to.
     
  12. thepluralofvinyl

    thepluralofvinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Music City, USA
    The catch with that too is that the stampers are two separate pieces bolted (in some cases glued) into the presses separately so they are almost never exactly centered with one another. If you measure the centering on a scope, side A and B are almost always a little off and almost never match exactly.
     
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  13. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    If I destroy an album's value because I bored a bigger center hole in it, so be it. I just want to hear or make a needledrop of the music without any wow.
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    It's not a shame. It's just the way we're wired. Just like some people aren't bothered by the treble boost that those AT carts have without the proper loading, and some of us are.
     
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  15. thepluralofvinyl

    thepluralofvinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Music City, USA
    Your point is valid but this part isn't really true. No records are a perfect spiral, just look at the photos of grooves under a microscope they frequently sway. Plus something with a lot of left/right channel action is going to create a little sway too.
     
  16. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    I had the huge disappointment of both copies of a mono Pye Village Green side 2 reissue pressed off center. Side 1 is fine so this wouldn't be a problem with the spindle hole. Wobbly pitch drives me nuts - luckily I don't encounter often
     
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  17. ElizabethH

    ElizabethH Forum Resident

    Location:
    SE Wisconsin,USA
    Lucky lucky me.. I must be totally tone deaf as I have never once had an issue due to off center LPs. And yes I have had a feew. So as I wrote. Must be immune to it due to tin ears.
     
  18. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    with my entire vinyl collection in the past I did not have that problem...the problem I had was pressing variations in sound quality...
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

  20. Adam9

    Adam9 Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй.

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I just noticed this today playing a recently-acquired 45 of "Summer In The City". Great-sounding record except for the pitch wobble. :sigh:
     
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  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Also watch the second film "THE SOUND AND THE STORY", around 14:51 is where the center hole is "centered" on the press... This is where it can go terribly wrong if the operator is careless.. A few more minutes in to this second film, you'll see a quality control person checking the first record off the press for problems including center hole fidelity, etc.
     
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  22. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    That's not what he's talking about. He's not talking about minute groove excursions, he's talking about the back and forth motion of the tone arm playing a record. There shouldn't be any. If there is, the grooves, as opposed to the record itself, are not centered.

    Correct. So, the record winds up being "off-center" when the end-user plays it.
     
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  23. petercl

    petercl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seekonk, MA, USA
    My new Sabatoge 180g is off center. It messes up the intro to Thrill of it All. :(
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Please note, if your new record is off-center, all 500 or so of the same album pressed at the same time will be as well. Pointless to get a different one unless you know it is from a DIFFERENT pressing run.
     
    Sheffield Steel likes this.
  25. Thurenity

    Thurenity Listening to some tunes

    What if there was only 500 pressed? :eek:
     
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