The Rolling Stones- Goat's Head Soup song-by-song discussion!

Filler is a subpar song used to fill up an album so it can be released.

So I think calling "Can You Hear the Music" *filler* may be wrong. Sure, maybe it should have been a B-side and not an album cut. But Mick chose that song to put on the album over songs like “Through the Lonely Nights” and “Short and Curlies” and I do not see those as filler.

If you call one filler, don’t you also have to call the ones that did not get used filler?

 

With the Stones I just call it bad judgement. How do you leave The Storm off of Lounge??? How do you leave Under The Radar off ABB???

Bad judgement.

 

Yer welcome! As OP I freely admit overseeing these discussions can be a bit of a chore at times but I've enjoyed it as well

Remember: one man's "filler" is another man's "classic album track". I can't think of many other bands where that rule applies as well as it does with the Stones.

 

And also "filler" isn't necessarily bad.

 

No, it's not. Not every song is meant to be a "single" or a "hit".

 

According to who is any song considered 'filler'? That's always been my problem with the term, yet it's constantly thrown around as if it's fact.

 

Okay, before we get tripped off into a discussion of what constitutes "filler" and what doesn't, shall we discuss "Tops" and "Waiting On A Friend" like I was originally planning on doing here?

 

Yes lets hear it!! Two songs I wish had been on GHS, would have really given it some more depth.

 

No, let's just have a full blown discussion and get everyone's views on what GHS songs might be filler. My money would be on every single song getting at least one mention.

Would that make the entire record 'filler'?

 

Which tracks would you replace?

 

'Kay- I'm actually off from work tonight (yay!) so if I get a chance I'll start on those two tracks, if not I'll do so on Wednesday.

An entire album of filler...I'm sure it's been done!

 

According to the good folks on SHTV, probably many, many times.

 

Coming Down Again 100% goes, then maybe Angie, Hide Your Love or Can Your Hear The Music.

 

Interesting observations. Couple of points:

I was not the first here at all to observe that part of Winter's beauty is the ambivalence the song portrays over its subject matter. But I agree with that. Jagger's voice which you say sounds a little drunk, I said on some listens sounds tired, I think in fact works to portray that ambivalence. I also found it interesting you commented on Winter without mentioning Taylor, who imo dominates this tune, in a good way.

But I really like your observation about repetition. It's hard to imagine that was intended as some sort of way to improve the album. They could always have shortened some of the songs and added another one or two if it came to that. More likely the repetition reflects the overall approach to its production, which is some combination of weariness, or perhaps lassitude as coming down from a drug high, maybe some sloppiness, Keith's lack of focus and involvement. Perhaps this is why I sometimes think this album works better listening in the car than sitting in my living room. (And for CYFTM I agree this works, unlike some here.)

Your observation that Star has a good deal of energy, relative to the rest, is no doubt why they thought it a good ending song. I am not sure why many criticize it as an ending song. I think it works.

Anyway, nice post.

 

GHS, an entire album of filler...

 

Filler when applied to the Stones is something I also question quite a lot. The Stones after all are my second favorite group, and many of their albums are in my all time top albums list. Post Taylor Stones are more problematic for me than for some other Stones fans, apparently. But going all the way back to the beginning through to the subject of this thread and at least a healthy proportion of some that followed was one of the best runs of music ever. Filler to me is a song not worth listening to, most convincingly if not worth listening to at any point past initial hearing, added to the album merely to fill it up. That being the case I find very little of that run to be what I consider filler.

I even debate with myself when I usually find an example to be truly filler. A perfect example of this debate is Dear Doctor off Beggar's Banquet. In fact I usually skip it, a sort of tiresome listen in an otherwise perfect album. But I also recognize they were trying to be a little humorous, and just did not pull it off to my satisfaction. That being its likely purpose it is difficult to qualify it as intended filler. Even if I skip it now. Without going over specifics I can say I have looked at about a fourth of Satanic Majesties as filler. But off hand I can't think of much that is true filler in the Stones from that period. I guess the last song on Between the Buttons, but even Something Happened has its fans.

In short the Rolling Stones and filler are not two concepts I often put together. (Until you get to their later stuff.)

 

Yeah re "Tops" & "Waiting on a Friend" -
I think I need to hear the early versions of both these songs to hear whether a lot was added in 1981 production wise. In its TY form I can't hear "Tops" fitting in with the likes of "Hide Your Love" or "Silver Train" because the latter are more bluesy and the production is too clean on "Tops" . It could work with the likes of "Can You Hear The Music" or "Doo Doo" but IMO the problem would be that TY would be weaker without these songs.

 

I think "Tops" and "Waiting On A Friend" both ended up where they needed to be - on the second side of Tattoo You. That's a pretty good side and it was Tattoo You where they ripped off the Rod Stewart idea of a fast side and a slow side. And it was great to hear Mick Taylor on that record (and Nicky Hopkins though he had been on Emotional Rescue). But as a construct, I think Tattoo You is put together really well and those two GHS outtakes really make the second side stand out. I assume the vocals were done closer to the time of Tattoo You's release but Mick did a good job on them. Plus they had to wait for Sonny Rollins to collaborate and put those great sax parts on tape, most notably on "Waiting On A Friend".

The only change I would have made to GHS is possibly ditching "D" for "Criss Cross". This thread opened me up to the idea that swapping "D" with "Heartbreaker" in the running order and then replacing "Music" with "Criss Cross" might have worked as well. "D" has more fans than I imagined.

 

Problem is, your filler might be my classic track. It's guaranteed to be someone's.

And vice-versa. Regardless of band, record, or genre.

 

I would have mentioned Mick Taylor being incredible in "Winter" but I made a couple of mistakes about the instrumentation on my previous post so I just avoided all names though very few guitarists could pull of what he did in that song so I did know it was him and mentioned the guitar solo and lead guitar overall but with no names. Taylor has emotional power in his playing, moreso than many lead guitarists-he's undeniable.

Filler can come from feeling the repetition may not have always been needed but it depends on the song and the person. I think it was a time when many bands and singer/songwriters were extending their songs and having 10 songs or less on an album was pretty typical. Perhaps the Stones were seeing that around them plus they themselves had been making longer songs for years so they were comfortable with the longer lengths. Lots of times people use repetition just to drive home a lyric or a hook but if the hook isn't great, it can feel forced. I think a little trim here and there wouldn't be so bad here so they could fit in one of their great outtakes making it 11 songs total but overall I really do like this album a lot and most of the hooks hold up despite repetition. I don't think any one song is filler.

 

On a scale of 1(poor) to 10(excellent):

Dancing with Mr. D-9
100 Years Ago- 8
Coming Down Again- 3
Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo(Heartbreaker)- 10
Angie- 10
Silver Train-7
Hide Your Love- 9
Winter- 10
Can You Hear the Music?- 3
Star Star- 10

Starsucker is my favorite.

 

Ranking

Dancing With Mr D- 6.5
100 Years Ago-7
Coming Down Again-6
Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)-8
Angie-9
Silver Train-7.5
Hide Your Love-7
Winter-9
Can You Hear The Music-5
StarStar-8

 

For ratings I guess I'll go

Dancing With Mr D (B)
100 Years Ago (B+)
Coming Down Again (B+)
Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker) (A-)
Angie (A-)
Silver Train (B)
Hide Your Love (C+)
Winter (A-)
Can You Hear The Music (B-)
Star Star (B)

Goats Head Soup (B+)

 

Only the artist can determine what original songs are Filler.

Some people have a different definition of what the word “Filler” means.

But by its very definition the correct meaning is a song meant to fill up a space. So cover songs are traditionally filler, because artist do not have enough of their own songs to fill out an album.

 

I don't like Angie on this album, to a large extent because it's been overplayed. But that doesn't mean it qualifies as filler. To this point and Sami's point I do not think filler is an entirely subjective concept, depending on the level of the individual listener's level of appreciation. Filler is more a term I apply when the band's effort seems weak, or a tired formula was used in a way that suggests the song has a throwaway quality to it. Angie despite being a song I routinely skip on this album is not one I would even think of saying the Stones viewed as a throwaway, although sometimes I do think it has a formulaic quality I find suspect.

So yeah, I don't think Goat has any filler on it. Despite having a bit too much repetition here and there.