The Shape of Water - Guillermo del Toro

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Deuce66, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. Indeed. It was a little long and I agree with any here that the pay off for the painter’s story could easily have been achieved cutting out parts of his story. The use of the black couple going 8 t9 the shop along with the parallel story of the painter and the creature/woman romance (and the CIA operative, KGB operative is all about how isolated those who don’t conform to the standards of what is normal. The sense that they can't connect with others because of the world they live in. Like all of Del Toro's work, he managed to take something a 20th century story (sometimes its a 21st century story) and combine it with elements of the essence of fairy tales making it relevant today.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host

    Boy, some of you guys could take the joy out of eating a peach.

    Will win Best Pic come Oscar time.
     
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  3. I’m thinking probably.
     
  4. clashcityrocker

    clashcityrocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Great White North
    Put me in the bad peach category. I'm sorry but the plot is so thin and preposterous, by the end I was just shaking my head as it came to it's obvious end. To go with a water metaphor, it stayed in the shallow end and we never got the thrill of the deep end. Of course I can appreciate the mise en scène but I want to connect on a higher level. Who is this creature? Does it have a family? Is it a God? What if it is a hermaphodite? We don't know because Del Toro doesn't care - it is a lonely creature who falls in love with a girl so just accept it. I found it disturbing Del Toro makes Hawkins unrobe in front of us and show herself not being the master of her domain and then grin like a Cheshire cat after she's getting it from her new man. Good to know every man amphibious or not needs to get it on with the first person they meet but it's okay she's really horny and lonely too. Ugh. Do I need to mention the ridiculous caricatures of those evil Russians, the uncaring US General, the homophobic racist with a fake accent from Ottawa, etc.?? Also good to know cleaners can just hang out in top security areas and eat their lunch and oh yeah free a top secret creature from a high security centre with a van and a fake ID, that one guard on duty really screwed up. Plus don't forget this being a Fox production with a theatre that only plays 20th Century Fox movies. Will it win the Best Pic, hey Shakespeare In Love won so why not, but I'm thinking nah.
     
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  5. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I just watched it. "Green is the Warmest Color." I mean, "The Shape of Water."

    What a weird movie.

    I get the same ESL screenplay vibe I get from "Mimic." Ive almost never head more ridiculous dialog in my life. The actors must adore Del Tore since they manage to keep a straight face.

    French accordion over picturesque interspecies sex. Yowsa. Not exactly "The Princess and athe Frog." I see the traumatized children of careless parents look differently at Barney the iguana.

    What a potpourri of "tribute to the past" tropes with sci-fi on TV and B&W dance numbers.

    I just watch "The Disaster Artist" today and I was longing for something something with more real feeling like "The Room" after about four hours of "The Shape of Water" had passed.

    So, in my opinion, this is what happens when Guillermo Del Toro spends a weekend watching "The Creature from the Black Lagoon" "The Iceman," "Flipper." and "The Mermaid in the Bathtub" from the Japanese Guinea pig series.

    What a horrifically miscalculated piece of junk.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  6. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    It's gotta get nominated first, but I have every expectation that will happen. I'd be very surprised if it doesn't nab some nominations for Best Actress, Best Director, Best Screenplay, Best Cinematography, and Best Art Direction as well. Possibly VFX, music, and editing as well. There are a lot of more "showy" movies where these elements hit you over the head, but I always say it's harder to make this work in a small film with an intimate story, as opposed to giant car crashes and spaceship explosions.

    The VFX work is particularly remarkable when you consider how many of them are invisible, recreating a city that hasn't looked like this in more than 55 years:



    So far, The Shape of Water has received 206 nominations and 46 awards worldwide:

    List of accolades received by The Shape of Water (film) - Wikipedia

    At some point, you gotta wonder what these critics can see that you can't. There's always the possibility that your taste is out of sync with the rest of the movie-watching public.

    I can recall an essay from Roger Ebert about 25 years ago where he went down a fairly good list on what he felt a "good movie" had to achieve. Some of the bullet points included, "taking you to a place you've never been before and making you believe you've been there," "a story that makes sense within the internal logic of the movie," "a plot that surprises you," "characters who desperately want something," and "characters you can empathize with and believe, even if you don't like them." I think Shape of Water did all of those things, and it's doubly amazing when you consider how little money the film cost and yet how effective it was at building the world of 1962 and making you believe in a fantasy. I don't think there's any harder films to pull off than fantasy, and this film did that extremely well for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  7. agentalbert

    agentalbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    And also in the conversation he had with the General, who it seemed Strickland may have looked up to as sort of a father figure. He was asking for it to be okay that he failed this one time after many years of always coming through for the General. But he's told, no, it's not okay. Despite you always delivering in the past, if you fail at this, you are nothing, you are worthless, the universe will completely forget you. I wasn't clear if the general was just speaking metaphorically, or actually threatening to erase (kill) Strickland if he didn't recover the creature. But it sure seemed threatening. It explains why Strickland can be so ruthless and cruel. Gave me a bit of sympathy for him, even though he's obviously the villain.
     
  8. R. Cat Conrad

    R. Cat Conrad While the moderators jest... Well, you know

    Location:
    D/FW Metroplex
    I'd fully support something along the lines of Yul Brenner's cigar in The Magnificent Seven. ;)

    :cheers:
    Cat
     
  9. R. Cat Conrad

    R. Cat Conrad While the moderators jest... Well, you know

    Location:
    D/FW Metroplex
    C'mon, Steve. How did we get from eating a peach to awarding the pit? ;)

    :cheers:
    Cat
     
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  10. Indeed. It was a little long and I agree with any here that the pay off for the painter’s story could easily have been achieved cutting out parts of his story. The use of the black couple going 8 t9 the shop along with the parallel story of the painter and the creature/woman romance (and the CIA operative, KGB operative is all about how isolated those who don’t conform to the standards of what is normal.
     
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host

    The movie is unique, that's what the Academy loves. I have a SAG/AFTRA screener so I've watched all the SAG nominated films several times (it's fun having a family member in the Union). The director of this leaves nothing to chance. Nothing.

    Every shot, every angle, etc. is calculated as it should be. The opening scene, she awakes from her water dream, she picks out her shoes, she gets her eggs to boil, she looks at her scars in the mirror, she masturbates in the bathtub while the egg timer is going, she gives the artist 1/2 of her sandwich, etc. is all done to the music. She gets on the bus and actually whistles the melody line of the background music as the bus drives away. When she stops whistling in mid phrase, a piano takes over the melody line. Nothing is left to chance, nothing.

    I've watched GET OUT, I, TONYA, LADY BIRD, DARKEST HOUR and THE SHAPE OF WATER, etc. several times (I love these screeners) and each put me "in a place" and each was pretty darn unique. They do what good movie making should do..
     
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  12. Blastproof

    Blastproof Forum Resident

    Peaches are delicious. And so is this film. The atmosphere and characters had me riveted. Most tellingly, my wife enjoyed it. That is saying a WHOLE LOT. :winkgrin:
     
  13. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    If this clumsy, awkward misfire gets nominated for best picture, I'll eat my hat. I stopped it three times because I was unsure how much I could endure, or if I wanted to bother. The film felt and looked like a low-budget Roger Corman movie (masquerading as a high-budget one), co-directed by the eternally over-the-top Luc Bresson and Mr. Restraint Del Toro, and slated for release in select parts of France and Malaysia, aimed at the age group of.... wellm that one I can't figure out, yet! But I don't think the members of the Academy are trying as hard to prove they have a 15-year old mentality ("I'm cool!"), as most of the American public seems obsessed with prove over this semi-talented filmmaker who has still yet to prove to me any real talent (maybe make this taste) as an auteur.

    I laughed my butt off at the earlier comment "Thank goodness Del Toro directed this, it's exactly the kind of film Spielberg would have messed up." Hahaha. Really, someone said this? Would Spielberg get within a country mile of this awful script is the real question!

    If I was the head of the studio and the producers brought me this French-Waif (in California) -touch-me in the bathtub (twice)-hot-for-lizard-junk (I loved the prolonged conversation about where his package was hidden between the two women (much needed, Guillermo!) mismash of regurgitated cinema, they would be down at YouTube looking for jobs today.



    Oh people love to pull number around here: $23.1M box office on a $19M budget. Well, it just squeaked by "My Little Pony: The Movie." That's something.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  14. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    Considering that 7-10 films get nominated, I would invest in a smaller, more edible hat in the next five days.
     
  15. It will definitely be nominated for best picture because it was one of the best of films of the year plus they can nominate up to ten films if they choose to.
     
  16. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I forgot about the wider field change. It almost has to get nominated (ugh). Make that my beret.
     
  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I think another big aspect of this movie in its favor is the fact that the director struggled for 7 years to get it made, plus he financed some of it (like the $200,000 needed to make the creature's costume) out of his own pocket, plus it was a small film that cost under $20 million. Just the set bills on some of the big blockbusters get over $20 million. It's always nice to see an underdog come from out of nowhere and get all the critical raves, particularly when it's as good as this one.
     
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  18. R. Cat Conrad

    R. Cat Conrad While the moderators jest... Well, you know

    Location:
    D/FW Metroplex
    I thought the $200,000 creature costume was money well spent. The rest, ...!
    :cheers:
    Cat
     
  19. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I just thought of the perfect name for this movie: "Creature from the Blue Lagoon."
     
  20. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    I was hoping 3 Billboards would win. I think it has a good message in the end and it's certainly a challenging script with twists and turns you don't see coming.
     
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  21. Best film at the critics choice awards.
     
  22. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    I haven't seen it yet but it looks like a lock for Best Director and Best Film at the Oscars based on the awards it has won so far.
     
  23. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I'd see it first. Venice has a thing about water.
     
  24. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I think that counts for the 10 minute setup, but not for 113 minutes that follow.
     
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  25. FVDnz

    FVDnz Forum Resident

    I saw this just a few days ago and Sally Hawkins was brilliant. I was kinda hoping for a different ending but I do think that Michael Shannon's character was beyond redemption I suppose.

    Must see Pan's Labyrinth again too at some point too. The young girl Ivana Baquero would later appear in The Shannara Chronicles as Eritrea - and man has that girl blossomed into an attractive young lady. Can't say much about acting in that show though.
     
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