The Smiths - are they overrated or not?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by antonkk, Mar 4, 2011.

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  1. Ricko

    Ricko Forum Resident

    Yes. The Smiths are an incredibly over-rated band.

    Until you put on one of their albums. :)
     
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  2. Eli

    Eli Party Coordinator

    Location:
    Isle of Lucy
    Similar to the metal crowd's appreciation of Queen.
     
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  3. Jeff K

    Jeff K Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Eastern, PA. USA
    It's comical how some people can call Morrissey 'strikingly gay' yet had no problems with Freddie prancing about on stage. I had a friend during high school who loved to mock Mick Jagger for his feminine manner and he was the biggest Freddie Mercury fan around. Go figure.
     
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  4. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    For all of Morrissey's perceived opposition to Thatcherism, his worldview, as Jose correctly notes, is also extremely reactionary and bears strong sympathies to Thatcherism - all of those record sleeves fethishizing some never-really-existed pre-Beatlemania England, with rows and rows of grey brick semi-detached houses - both Morrissey and the Iron Lady shared similar yearnings for an idealized England for the English, before all of those troublesome West Asian immigrants started moving in. Both made statements, that, rightly and wrongly, were perceived to flirt with National Front rhetoric on the immigration issue.

    Morrissey was also a Luddite - he was violently opposed to CDs, and the Smiths weren't just the last great singles band, they were the last great vinyl band. It was perhaps inevitable that they would break up when they did, just at the moment that the CD supplanted the LP and the 45 as the primary recorded music medium.

    Finally, Morrissey's "gayness" was also a peculiarly reactionary, repressed British version of gayness - far more Brian Epstein than Frankie Goes to Hollywood. The lyrical imagery of the early Smiths records in particular recalls the closeted, tortured world of a Brian Epstein or Joe Orton far more than it does the flamboyant, "out" gayness of Frankie, or even David Bowie. Or one could just say that the entire lyrical theme of the inability to connect with others - "And in the darkened underpass / I thought Oh God, my chance has come at last / But then a strange fear gripped me / And I just couldn't ask" - reflects a peculiarly British repressed sexuality as much as it reflects a "gay" sexuality.
     
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  5. Staxman

    Staxman Member

    Location:
    Lunatic Fringe
    I agree, but I think The Smiths will always appeal to the alienated, regardless of age.
     
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  6. Ricko

    Ricko Forum Resident

    Yes, and it's all just gay-bashing when it's negatively directed. It's a good way to undermine a man's credibility - maybe the best way. :rolleyes:

    The fact that Morrisey and the band were able to attract their original fan base, and grow it over the decades should indicate to even the most moronic mind that sexual preferences - or lack thereof - have nothing to do with making good music.

    This just in: music that a broad demographic base can relate to requires inspired talent rather than heterosexuality. :laugh:

    And Driver 8 makes a good point about a peculiar point in British culture that the imagery (especially) of The Smiths revisits over and over again. But I'd say that closeted sexual repression was just a part of it: gut-wrenching loneliness and alienation are universal themes, and the brilliance of The Smiths is that they were able to make it work as rock'n'roll.
     
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  7. katstep

    katstep Professional Cat Herder

    No, that's the definition of not taking the time to listen. There's a reason they're on the covers of those magazines. Their catalog IS popular. Just because you choose to ignore it does not make it any less popular. They were only one of the most influential UK bands of the 80s.
     
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  8. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    Oy vay, ANOTHER overrated thread?

    Anyway...the Smiths, NOT overrated, and I think WAY underrated. Never made a bad recording to my way of thinking, and waxed a ton of truly GREAT recordings. Instantly identifiable sound (vocals and music).

    Yep, a true rhythm playing genius, up there with the best of them (Lennon, Richards, Buck).

    Dead on right! Generally wonderful lyrics - setting them apart from 99% of rock music INCLUDING many of the greatest acts who mostly got across based on sheer energy and the music, NOT the lyrics. Take the words to a song like "Cemetery Gates:" funny, sad, wistful, literate and down to earth, nostalgic and modern all at once. Amazing.

    Repeat, NOT overrated, WAYYYYY underrated.

    (IMHO) :laugh:
     
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  9. katstep

    katstep Professional Cat Herder

    That's just the same tired old cop out I've heard a thousand times from folks who fail to take the time to actually explore a bands music. The worlds easiest musical dismissal is: "It all sounds the same to me". Yeah, right. LOL! :laugh: I could say that about countless other "classic" bands too, but it's just plain lazy.
     
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  10. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    Like their fellow Mancunians Joy Division, the Smiths were independent, but never "indie." They didn't share the same fear of success as your paint-by-numbers indie artists of the era. They had top ten singles in the real UK singles chart, not just the indie one. They had number one albums on the real UK album chart. Unlike the Clash, they didn't boycott Top of the Pops as a vulgar commercial sellout to be avoided on principle, they appeared on it and made their TOTP appearances a life-changing event for their generation, much as Bowie's and Bolan's appearances on the show had been a decade earlier. Before their breakup, they had left Rough Trade for EMI, and their next album after Strangeways would not have been on an indie label. In the US, they never were on an indie label.

    I actually agree with some of your beliefs about indie rock, anton, but I don't think you fully understand how much the Smiths deviated from cookie-cutter indie ideology.
     
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  11. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    Nice post Driver 8 -I'd never thought of it that way but very true.
     
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  12. And then you have something like "Ask", which is both somewhat closeted and lewd simultaneously.
     
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  13. rushed again

    rushed again Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Agreed. Far from cookie cutter. Very unique.
     
  14. fortherecord

    fortherecord Senior Member

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I Think what made the Smiths great was that they didn't sound like anyone else. They had a great rhythm section, a brilliant guitarist with an penchant for melody and rhythm, and a unique singer with smart and interesting lyrics. They wern't just another post punk; Joy Division, Cure, or U2 cloned band. They did their own thing without having to copy those bands.
     
  15. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    Well, the Mozzer did loosen up a little bit as the years went by. :D

    The lyrics on those first two albums, and their attentdant singles, are often grim, though.
     
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  16. surfingelectrode

    surfingelectrode Active Member

    Location:
    Lutz, FL
    I like the Smiths but I hate Morrissey's singing style.

    Does that make any sense?
     
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  17. Smiths22

    Smiths22 Well-Known Member

    am i overrated? mmm?
     
  18. moon unit

    moon unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    Maybe we should start a thread that asks "are bands who show no signs of intellect like Maiden and Saxon overrated."

    You'll get a lot more people agreeing with Morrissey than not.
     
  19. davers

    davers Forum Resident

    So true. Morrissey is one of the only vocalists that can make me chuckle out loud when I listen to the lyrics...probably my favorite wit in rock.

    Johnny Marr was a master at nailing the perfect guitar sound in service of each song. I've been tempted to see him with other bands since, but I'm afraid I'd be disappointed because he was so perfect in the context of The Smiths.
     
  20. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    moscow
    Well, I dunno. When I go to the club I mostly score. Sorry.:D
     
  21. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    moscow

    I actually meant the snobbery of their fans and worshipping critics and Morrissey's own (on which you seem to agree), not that were typical indie band. I wouldn't waste a separate thread on just another indie band - The Smiths very special and unique, I never doubted that.
     
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  22. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    You're right - they were special and unique, which explains why critics and fans admire them so much. I guess you can dismiss that admiration as snobbery if you like, but, to me, it was the Smiths, not the Clash, who were The Only Band That Mattered.
     
  23. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    moscow
    Cliches like "The only Band that Mattered" is exactly what separates snobbery from the admiration and what makes me hate indie ideologists. If you ever read anything by John Savage I think you know what I mean. Most Smiths/indie fans viewed them as the holy light among the darkness of the horrible square 80's music, especially despised AOR and metal and that's where they loose me big time, since I love the stuff they hated much more than I ever liked Smiths.
     
  24. Music Geek

    Music Geek Confusion will be my epitaph

    Location:
    Italy
    I think it's fair to say that in the same way as the Smiths recently rejected David Cameron's love, they will be happy to reject any courting by a heavy metal fan. Sorry anton, you are not to score with Morrissey at the club this time. :)
     
  25. Ricko

    Ricko Forum Resident

    :laugh::goodie::laugh::goodie::laugh:
     
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