The sound of Nat King Cole's The Magic of Christmas & The Christmas Song ALBUMS

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by dale 88, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Not sure he ever saw the actual tapes.
     
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  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    "Master tapes" -- if you mean the album's two (side one, side two) stereo mixdown reels, it's a safe bet that the master reels for The Christmas Song* LP were used for mastering at the Capitol tower in the 1960s-1980s, as that was common practice. Similarly, it's a safe bet that the two stereo mixdown reels were used for the 1986 CD. I can't speak to availability beyond that point, although I will remind people that, regardless of availability of the stereo running masters, later releases from Capitol were remixed from the 3-track session tapes rather than being remastered from the 2-track running masters.

    That said, even the best editions of the 1960-1986 releases sound mediocre, and that's putting it charitably. It's a sucky stereo mix, any way you slice it. I have no idea why this particular mix did not turn out in a more pleasing way, but it did not. Clearly, the recordings themselves, as evidenced by the remixes that have emerged, are clean as a whistle and have beautiful tone and a lack of distortion, harshness, etc. -- qualities that I cannot attribute to the original stereo mix.

    To expect something fantastic from those sad stereo mix tapes (sourced directly or via dubs or digital copies -- the discussion is largely academic) is to expect too much, IMO. It's like thinking, "Gee, I hope the next reissue of Nice 'n' Easy will have a dry vocal." If the original stereo mix is used, it won't! How did we finally get a decent-sounding release of Welcome to the Club in stereo? Remix from the 3-track!

    I'm all for using original mixes. Many of them are fantastic sounding. Some kinda stink. Whether it's the gen-u-ine original 2-track running master, or a dub of the 2-track running master, or a hi-res digital copy of the original running master, that original running master has some pretty glaring sonic limitations that anybody who has been listening has been aware of for many years.

    *(...and my guess is that the running masters for the 1960 album were simply cannibalized/re-labeled to create the 1963 masters, as I hear no sonic differences between the 1960 and 1963 releases, but that's "educated guess" stuff, admittedly.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
    teag, stereoptic, dale 88 and 4 others like this.
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Sorry to break any hearts, but the 2007 Nordstrom CD just re-uses the 1999 Norberg remix/mastering with a couple of songs swapped out (and gobs of reverb added on O Come, All Ye Faithful).
     
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  4. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    For that true cathedral sound experience!
     
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  5. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm Thread Starter

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Referring to the title of this thread I started -- The Sound of Nat King Cole's The Magic of Christmas & Christmas Song Albums -- I think I prefer the sound of the CD layer over the SACD layer on the 2015 CD/SACD from Kevin Gray.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Isn't the cd and sacd layer the same except for resolution? Honestly, I was disappointed in this AF release. Kevin would have done a better job cutting AAA vinyl for AF.
     
  7. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm Thread Starter

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Honestly, I was hoping for better sound myself. I suppose they are the same except for the conversion to CD, but my ears like the CD layer a bit better.
     
  8. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Needs to be remixed from the original 3-track session tapes to truly stand a chance.
     
  9. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Yeah, let's get SH on it right away, then he and Kevin should cut it AAA.
     
  10. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    In 2002 maybe, but they do not work together anymore.

    I would love a 3.0 SACD like the ones Analogue Productions gave us. That would be what Christmas is all about. :)
     
  11. coleman

    coleman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Matt, how big is that logo? Is it one of the tiny ones or a larger one? The logo sizes on Capitol CD's are all over the map. I was finally able to open my box of Cole CD's after almost a year and quickly went through them looking for that hand drawn logo, but didn't see it - though I'm 100% certain that I've seen it before. It's possible that it's not on a Cole CD. When I'm finally able to pull them out of the box and put them away in a month or so, I'll give them another look. I'll most likely be ditching the jewel cases, so I'll be opening each one again.
     
  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    DSC_0031.jpg
    [​IMG]
     
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Although I have no memory of this, I assume that when I bought the CD in 1986, it came in one of these longboxes:
    s-l1600-169.jpg
    If you're wondering, in the upper right corner, right under the Compact Disc logo, the text reads:
    Analog Recording
    Analog Mix
     
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  14. coleman

    coleman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Cool. Back in the days of AAD, ADD, DDD, etc... - like that was an indication of how good or poor the recoding would sound. I still have a couple longboxes. Ancient relics.
     
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  15. coleman

    coleman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Any opinion as to whether the AP SACD is worth the bucks for the couple listens it would during the holidays? Is it really that much better than the regular issues? It’s not like I’d listen to this album throughout the year. I think I have these songs on at least two other issues.
     
  16. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Do you mean the Audio fidelity SACD?
     
  17. coleman

    coleman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Yes, sorry, that's the one.
     
  18. coleman

    coleman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Did Nat ever record Oh, Christmas Tree in English? I could swear that he did, but I think I'm imagining it.
     
  19. Clark V Kauffman

    Clark V Kauffman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines, Iowa
    It is the best sounding version out there, but only marginally so. If you can get it cheap, I'd say go for it.
     
  20. coleman

    coleman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks. Clark.
     
  21. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    Maybe this was mentioned earlier up thread, but how good are the thoughts on the recent pressings of this? I've got the blue label version but it's got some crackle....might be worth it to upgrade?
     
  22. Pelvis Ressley

    Pelvis Ressley Down in the Jungle Room

    Location:
    Capac, Michigan
    The recent reissue is just the Norberg "mastering" cut to vinyl.
     
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  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Not merely a mastering, but a full-on remix from the session tapes.
     
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  24. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    that seems like it would be a good thing, no? Was it not done well or the remastering is just poor?
     
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

     

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