The Thorns...could they have been the next CSN?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Apollo C. Vermouth, Apr 16, 2014.

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  1. Apollo C. Vermouth

    Apollo C. Vermouth Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I was listening to 'The Thorns' CD and have to say it's a shame that they never came out with another album. Matthew Sweet, Shawn Mullins, and Pete Droge really has something with that CD IMHO. Harmonies like CSN and songs in the similar style to CSN. From what I've read and hear in interviews with Matthew Sweet and Shawn Mullins it was a very difficult record to complete and that was the main reason that they never went back into the studio to do a follow up. Anyone else know of the album, or a fan of the album, that also thinks that they could have been the next CSN (Crosby, Stills, and Nash)

     
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  2. Yannick

    Yannick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    The Thorns album is nice but when it comes to bands from the 00s in the style of CSN, it's the album of Low Stars (Chris Seefried, Dave Gibbs, Jeff Russo, Jude Christodal) which I prefer. To me, the songs on that are a lot catchier than those of Thorns. If you like Thorns, you will surely also enjoy this. George Drakoulias produced it and whereas Thorns definitely had the more prominent drummer in Jim Keltner, Low Stars had Fred Eltringham playing on their album who was in Wallflowers at the time.
     
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  3. jricc

    jricc Senior Member

    Location:
    Jersey Shore
    I agree it's a shame they never did a follow-up record. I especially like the acoustic versions on the bonus cd.
    Yeah, they could've been a new CSN.
     
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  4. Colin Allstations

    Colin Allstations Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Matthew Sweet became the new David Croby, when it came to eating.
     
  5. Paul Saldana

    Paul Saldana jazz vinyl addict

    Location:
    SE USA (TN-GA-FL)
    If they did reunite I'd like them to work with a producer who did not squash, clip and distort everything.
     
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  6. windfall

    windfall Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Three great songwriters and lovely harmonies. Shame it didn't work out. I bought a ticket to see the Dixie Chicks at the royal Albert hall mostly to see their opening set and they didn't disappoint.
     
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  7. DCW

    DCW been a-boogeyin' since I ditched the stroller.

    The Thorns' harmonies were great, the songs were good, and I don't know why it didn't work. It was obviously a record label contrivance, either to get the three "Alt" guys out of contractual obligations after "Alt" faded, or to prolong the major label lives of talented singer/songwriters who deserved better than the short shrift of changing times, but, for me, it was a contrivance which worked.

    Mullins' "No Blue Sky" was a favorite.

    Matthew Sweet and Susanna Hoffs, as taste-makers, are hip as all get-out, and it's obvious they get on well, but their harmonizing doesn't blend the way that the Thorns' harmonies did.
     
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  8. tyler928

    tyler928 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I'm a big fan of this album/group as well. Got the double CD (were they all doubles?) and really enjoy the acoustic versions better than the regular versions.

    Last year at Millennium Music in Portland, I found the vinyl! It's nothing special, really, but fun to have.
     
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  9. bibijeebies

    bibijeebies vinyl hairline spotter

    Location:
    Amstelveen (NL)
    Don't blame the producer, but first go to the artist!
     
  10. Paul Saldana

    Paul Saldana jazz vinyl addict

    Location:
    SE USA (TN-GA-FL)
    Brendan O'Brien clips & distorts absolutely everything he records. His Bruce Springsteen material sounds bad, this Thorns material sounds bad. The vinyl of the Thorns album sounded bad too. It's in the mix.
     
  11. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Listening to this on Rdio for the first time in 10 years. I thought it was too slick at the time -- of course, compared to today's records it now sounds like folk music.

    Is it just because he's the only one whose voice I'm familiar with, or does Matthew Sweet really dominate their vocal blend?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
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  12. jricc

    jricc Senior Member

    Location:
    Jersey Shore
    No, originally released as a single cd, then re-released with the extra disc.
     
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  13. jricc

    jricc Senior Member

    Location:
    Jersey Shore
    Low Stars sound really good, thanks Yannick:righton:
     
  14. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    A somewhat similar record to this is the Monsters of Folk album by Jim James, Conor Oberst and M Ward. Similar in the sense that it's three guys who usually work separately coming together to work on an album -- but they don't go after a CSN kind of harmony trio sound to the same extent.

    That album made me think that more songwriters should consider being part of a band with other singer-songwriters -- a whole album of them might get boring but four or five songs intermeshed with someone else's songs makes for a good, more varied listen. I do like My Morning Jacket but I felt like I enjoyed Conor Oberst and M Ward's songs in that context much more than I ever did checking out one of their own records. I felt the same about Brendan Benson in the Raconteurs. Put his songs beside Jack White's and they gain from the contrast.

    The Thorns I didn't really feel the same way about because the other two guys' songs didn't seem as good as Matthew Sweet's, and the overall sound was too homogenous. The idea is to have lots of variety. CSN(Y) sang together but everyone's songs were different.

    The problem, of course, is that most singer-songwriters are too prolific to work in that kind of situation, and that kind of band always falls apart eventually because it's too competitive.
     
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  15. bibijeebies

    bibijeebies vinyl hairline spotter

    Location:
    Amstelveen (NL)
    well, Sweet's material these days sounds like distorted MP3 fodder so there you go!
     
  16. Samfield

    Samfield Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    If you enjoy this type of music check out: Band of Horses "Acoustic at The Ryman". Just excellent top to bottom. My go to version of the Thorns is the 5.1 SACD. Only wish that the acoustic version was in 5.1 as well.
     
  17. Artietodd

    Artietodd Forum Resident

    This is one of my favorite albums. Classy, great, fun writing and singing throughout. No Blue Sky and Such A Shame are highlights. I still listen to it regularly.

    Part of the mystique is that they have not done anything since and likely never will.
     
  18. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    I bought the Thorns cd when it came out as I was/am a fan of Matthew Sweet and I played it for a few weeks but it became like a piece of chocolate cake. The more I consumed the less I wanted it. I started noticing how "sweet" it sounded, no pun intended and I don't mean it sounded like a predominant Sweet album. Everything was too perfect, too something. After a few months I didn't want to hear it much at all and then one day I decided I didn't need it anymore and traded it in and I haven't felt a need to hear it since. This phenomena has not happened very often in my personal listening experience and I really wanted to like it and I did but it was very short lived.
     
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  19. VeeDub

    VeeDub Senior Member

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    You are not alone. Spot-on evaluation, as far as I'm concerned.
     
  20. heatherly

    heatherly Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    I love the songs but they would've been better off with a producer with a less "slick" bag o' tricks. "I can't remember" is the one song where everything works perfectly, brilliant tune AND production.
     
  21. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    I looked forward to this album when it was announced, and found it distinctly underwhelming. Nice harmonies, and great pedigree. But just too slick, and the songs aren't quite good enough. I don't hate it. But I wish it were better. I would welcome another bite at the apple by these guys, but obviously that's not in the cards.

    As for the CSN analogy: Well, they probably were better than modern day CSN (IMHO). I'd rather listen to the Thorns album (particularly the acoustic version) than any CSN album since...well, at least the boat one.
     
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  22. Paul Saldana

    Paul Saldana jazz vinyl addict

    Location:
    SE USA (TN-GA-FL)
    I completely agree. The Under The Covers CDs as well as his own last to were ear-icepicks.
     
  23. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ambient postpunk will never die

    Location:
    Calgary
    That's a pretty shallow comment to make.
     
  24. Yannick

    Yannick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    You're welcome. I'm glad you like their music. Their album may well be my favorite George Drakoulias production. The solo album by Low Stars member Chris Seefried called "Denim Blue" was recorded around the same time with most of the same backing musicians (such as David Immerglück of Counting Crows) but I prefer the Low Stars album, mostly because it has got the more melodic songwriting of the two albums.

    But now, let this be a Thorns thread again.
     
  25. 3rd Uncle Bob

    3rd Uncle Bob Forum Resident

    They should have invited Tom Verlaine to join to be their "Neil Young".
     
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