the Tijuana Brass--Question for collectors & old A&M Records discussion

By the way Rudy, I'm enjoying looking though your A&M site. Seeing that old label and logo again warms my heart. I think I'll have to go out and snag some used copies of some of Herb's old albums again, all of my old ones were trashed years ago (I literally was a fan by the age of 3, and was pretty hard on them).

 

Wow--that's just about my experience too. My folks had all the early TJBs on mono vinyl, and I literally spent hours standing on the chair next to the Admiral console listening to all of these (and plenty of other vinyl treasures).

Fortunately, if you stay away from some of the opportunists on eBay, the old TJB vinyl is easy to find and not too expensive. That's one allure to collecting A&M--it's not as pricey as collecting RCA LiViNg StErEo or other high-profile labels, and not that unpopular that titles are difficult to find. While I would like to see CDs reissued, I can say that I'm very happy with the vinyl I already own. I've changed in my middle-age : I used to think that I'd only listen to something if it were put onto a CD...nowadays, I think of all the music that will never see a CD reissue, and am thankful to be able to grab music in whatever format I can find it. I like a "high end" sound, but that's only secondary to liking the music.

 

Thanks, Rudy, for the update on 'SRO'. I am aware of the Japanese CD releases and wasn't too keen on them.

'SRO' seemed like a place where the material and arrangements were growing up, if you will. Except for 'Mame', I wouldn't say there was a standout novelty number, but more 'real' songs. I wish I could think of a better way to put it.

I do miss the 45 version of "Tijuana Taxi" I used to have. Shoulda kept it.

 

TJB

Hi guys - I'm one of those "A&M guys" from the A&M Corner -- and a TJB fan from way back. Tim Neely has spread the word over there about Steve's interest in the mono LP of GOING PLACES, and I'm one of the ones who responded to him.

One thing that I did want to point out here is that the mono 45 mix of the "Taxi"/"Zorba" single was pressed on album vinyl -- on a DJ Sampler album sent to radio stations (A&M LP 9004). It was issued after "This Guy's In Love With You" was a hit, sent to the stations to freshen up their product, so they'd have clean copies of all of the major TJB efforts to date.

Since I work for a radio station, I managed to find a copy of this rarity -- in fact through ebaY, I actually located a second copy. The first one is mono and contains that shorter "Zorba" and the augmented "Taxi". The second album, a stereo copy, just contains all of the standard stereo mixes from the albums.

Sadly, the mono album saw some use at the radio station and has a few clicks and pops in it.

As for SRO, I'm one of the lucky ones that bought that Japanese CD years ago. Oddly, when one listens to it playing through a standard stereo system, it sounds OK. But listen to it on high-end equipment or with headphones and all of the flaws are really obvious.

 

Harry WHO?

I would bet your mono LP, clicks and all, may be better than a lot of those 'plastic' 45s out there. My single of Taxi/Zorba has seen more than a few miles on a turntable, and has some groove wear to it. I'd hope that single mix still exists on tape somewhere...

 

Famous Chinese detective (see old 60s TV show, Get Smart)

It actually does sound pretty good to my ears -- better than the plastic 45 I have, anyway. I transferred that whole mono album to a CD just for kicks. Worst pops and clicks happen in the quieter moments of "A Taste Of Honey".

 

Harry--does it have that 45 mix of "The Great Manolette" on it? And/or "Mexican Drummer Man"?

Speaking of the latter, I recall someone mentioning that was available on an import LP, but for the life of me I can't remember what that LP was called. It was one of those "early" compilations that had, I think, tracks from the first two or three albums combined on it.

Steve--too bad about the tape! I wonder if any other tapes for the single mixes were kept for posterity.

 

BEST FROM

LP 9004's track listing:

The Lonely Bull
South Of The Border
Mexican Shuffle
A Taste Of Honey
Whipped Cream
Spanish Flea
Zorba The Greek
Cabaret (added to correct the list)
Tijuana Taxi
What Now My Love
If I Were A Rich Man
Mame
The Work Song
Casino Royale
A Banda
This Guy's In Love With You

Sadly, neither "Mexican Drummer Man" nor "The Great Manolete" is on it. I wish they were, though my single of that one is pretty decent.

 

Well, that's not encouraging at all...

ED

 

Glad to oblige, Sir; anytime. Hope you have somethin' in the hopper for the TJB; they put out a single-CD comp overseas a while back, but as usual, not nearly enough and too much of the wrong stereo. Hell, I don't think there's ever been a truly definitive TJB/Herb compilation of any kind; always something missing. I think I still have a Quad-8 of the 1970 GREATEST HITS comp; sure wish I could play it now, just to hear how they mixed "Lonely Bull"; always sounded 2-track to me, their earliest things.
Right now a mono compilation of the big singles would be a real treat; very un-PC, perhaps, but so what? I'll take anything that gives the guys their due, and one place to have all the great stuff as it was heard on the radio. Among other things, the brass parts for Love's FOREVER CHANGES were directly influenced by some of those TJB arrangements. Fine musicians. The original stereo Lp's with mono bonus cuts would do the trick, too. Dreams do sometimes turn into reality, and considering some of the oddball reissues out there, no reason why these shouldn't see light of day.

Enjoy,

ED

 

Steve--I've had this wild idea that Rhino should take something like that "big compilation reel" and turn it into a three- or four-CD "Classic A&M" box set. Like you said about Universal, though, they probably have all of this on a reel...and good luck getting ahold of it! (For some of the TJB's rare single remixes, though, it might almost be worth the effort.)

Sounds odd, but as for the mono/stereo debacle, I prefer the Lonely Bull album in mono. The stereo added some overdubbed percussion parts to create a stereo version, and the song 'Crawfish' has a different solo in the midsection. I may clean up my mono LP and burn it to CD (it's already quite clean), with the stereo tracks from the 1988 CD added as a "bonus".

 

What keeps the TJB music so special for me is probably what most of the fans remember: its buoyancy. This wasn't the usual Kaempfert/Mantovani Muzak(which I'm not knocking--I have one of Bert's CDs and an older friend was thrilled when I burned it for him) though it probably sold to the same older audience, generally. There was a lot of thought, imagination and time put into those early albums(I don't really think they lost it until around SGT. PEPPER time; after that, it became more of a formula without the same distinction). Amazing that all these albums have become 50-cent flea market items, regardless of condition; lots of good material scattered everywhere, some singles that should have been and never were("Brazilia")but most of all, the joys of "Zorba," "Taxi," "Spanish Flea" and "A Banda." My late father dug some of this stuff, too; not normally his type of music, either.
The 'lighter' stuff("More And More Amor," "What Now My Love")has an elegance and appeal rare in the pop music of the time. And, any music that can make me feel good AND make me smile is the best music of all. The Beatles still do that; so do the TJB.
Both catalogs need some work.

ED

 

Two things.

Ed, I agree with you. Both catalogs need work! I'm not holding my breath for either at this point.

Steve,

I actually remember that TV sales guy. It was at the May Co. store, correct? He looked really old to me (probably at least 45) and he always had a big cigar in his mouth. He hated kids and always tried to chase us out of there. But I remember he discovered that the Tijuana Brass records attracted a crowd. It was that really big RCA Victor stereo that was almost in the center of the aisle, correct? Since it seems like yesterday but actually thirty-six years ago, I will go be depressed now.

 

Having the original albums with bonus tracks, mono, stereo,what have you, would be a real treat. Many of the TJB fans, myself included have traded information about the rarities and oddities. Those I'm aware of include:

- The mono mixes that Rudy mentioned from The Lonely Bull. True, the title track did show up in its original mono on that Definitive Hits compilation from last year, but the claim was that the original tape was lost.

- "Mexican Drummer Man" - the odd single track that featured a vocal section by The Blossoms, a girl group. It's only been on a 45 here in the States, but we're told it showed up on a compilation album in Australia, allegedly in stereo.

- The commercial recording for "The Teaberry Shuffle", known on the album as "The Mexican Shuffle."

- "The Great Manolete" - the flip side of that single, a song from the second album ( Volume 2 ). As Rudy mentioned earlier in the thread, this mix is different, with more overdubbed trumpet.

- The "Taxi"/"Zorba" mixes from the 45, discussed earlier in the thread.

- The mono single mix of "The Happening" that chops off the final flute note.

- A Union Oil commercial

- The mix of "The Magic Trumpet" used on their first TV special. It featured a high trumpet, one octave higher than the main melody line.

- "Whistle While You Work/Heigh Ho - a track from the first TV special

- "Yo Soy Ese Amor" - Herb's Spanish language version of "This Guy's In Love With You". There was an Italian version as well, called "Un Ragazzo Che Ti Ama."

- "California Girls" as done in the Beat Of The Brass TV special.

- A BankAmericard commercial from their Beat Of The Brass TV special.

- "To Wait For Love" - the mono single mix with a different lead vocal.

- "Without Her" - a mono mix for AM radio that appeared on radio stations' copies of SOLID BRASS. It had a large amount of compression to level out the wild dynamic range of that recording.

- "Fire And Rain" - a b-side to "Last Tango In Paris" that found its way onto a British compilation album. The 45 was mono, and that album version seems to be some kind of fake stereo.

- "El Bimbo" - a track that seemed destined for an aborted 70s album, a followup to Coney Island. Stereo 45.

- "Whistlesong" - another from that same era. Stereo 45.

- "Desert Dance" - never issued on record, but played on TV's The Midnight Special. Theory is that it was destined for that aborted album.

- "Somewhere" - played on TV's The Dinah Shore Show. Again, probably destined for that aborted '70s album.

And that's just the TJB stuff we know about. There's a flock of songs Herb did as Dore Alpert on the RCA and Dot labels prior to the A&M days. And as a solo artist from the mid '70s on, there's a few other rare tracks.

In addition to craving proper reissues of all of the TJB albums, this other stuff would be the icing on a very sweet cake!

 

One interesting thing I've discovered is that between the TJB and the Baja Marimba Band, with a couple of other studio musicians (like Pete Jolly), they backed a lot of other artists on the early label. Listen to some of Claudine's recordings, the Canadian Sweethearts and Lucille Starr, or especially "Fly Me To The Moon" by Chris Montez. That easygoing swing in the background is essentially the A&M gang. On that tune in particular, I hear Julius Wechter, a flute (perhaps Bernie Fleischer), a piano that to me is a dead ringer for Pete Jolly, guitar likely being John Pisano...a tight knit crew. Montez's vocals don't do anything for me (other than make me wish for the vocal eliminator ), but the instrumental background had the same "A&M" sound. Listen to one of the early sampler albums and you'll catch a lot of similarities!

The musicians for the TJB on record seemed to be whatever Herb felt he wanted for the sound on any particular track. I believe he approached 'Tijuana Brass' as a concept, not a band...although he did have the touring band that made the appearances and filmed those TV specials.

 

Re: BEST FROM

Either you missed one or your mono version has one less track than the stereo issue (SP19004).
Cabaret follows Zorba The Greek on my stereo vinyl copy.

GM

 

Re: Re: BEST FROM

Right you are. "Cabaret" is the eighth track, following "Zorba." Sorry about that.

 

Steve: I've thought about getting that DCC compilation just because it features some of his non-A&M hits on it. (That and the fact that it actually has musician credits, something all those old A&M LPs lacked.) Nothing against Chris or A&M, but to me, that wasn't the most ideal match. There were some good songs ("The More I See You" and "Call Me" are infectious), but I think he was out of his element in that style of music. (He's into Tejano now, I think?) He seemed like an artist who would be better in a more energetic surrounding (see "Let's Dance"), or not using the falsetto so much. As someone who has perfect pitch, his lack of a steady pitch while singing sort of makes me wince on those higher notes.

He was at our Woodward Dream Cruise this past summer, but I didn't get a chance to drive up to Pontiac to see him.

Agreed about Pete Jolly--he's a seasoned pro! I have some mid-50's piano trio albums of his on RCA, as well as several Shorty Rogers. (Shorty's sound turned me onto that whole "west coast jazz" sound.) It's neat that Herb hooked up with both of them during those classic years. Next time I get to L.A. (likely next summer), I plan on catching one of Jolly's gigs, along with one of John Pisano's guitar nights. Want to catch them both while I still can.

Speaking of west coast--I own very few DCC releases, but I was blown away by Vince Guaraldi's Black Orpheus remaster. I'd borrowed my mother's orignal Fantasy CD of it, and was familiar with the sound...but the DCC? I'd like to say you could hear the bristles of the brushes hitting the drum head. If I had to guess, Fantasy was (and may still be) using their old LP masters to make these CDs. The difference is so "night and day" that I can't think of another reason. Fantasy's CD just sounded "old."

Oh, come to think of it, I have those Cal Tjader "Skye Records" reissues on DCC also. I'm glad somebody remembered those lost albums!

 

One idea I was fond of was your "dream compilation" that contained the true "definitive hits", counting down the TJB singles, in order, as they appeared on the Billboard charts. My own dream compilation, still, would be to get all the solo 12" singles on one CD. There's enough for two CDs, but I don't need to include edited versions, "rub-a-dub-dub" versions, or five different (and equally tiring) remixes of "North on South Street." (Which reminds me I still owe you a copy of that one...they're propagating on Detroit-area used vinyl store shelves as I speak.)

Interesting about the b-sides is that they're all mono (naturally). "Fire and Rain" is mono, and even appears in mono on a U.K. compilation album I own. Then again, the album You Smile, The Song Begins had a poor stereo mix to begin with--the separation is very poor, but if I kick in the surround, there's at least a little bit of random information from the rear channels. (If it were mono, I'd only hear a very faint version of what's in the front, or a little bit of tracking distortion and vinyl noise.)

 

White on rice?! Whoa, there cliche-boy! Some of us like that brown rice.

"White Rice And Other Delights"
A Taste Of Soy Sauce
Green Peppers
Orange Slices
Bittersweet & Sour
Lemon Tea
????
Ginseng Potion #9
????
????
Peanuts
????

Oh, come on, I was just having some fun...

All silliness aside, if there's any possiblity of a catalog overhaul of TJB and Baja Marimba, well, consider another batch sold.