The Troggs/stupid question of the day!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jgrig0, Aug 18, 2006.

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  1. jgrig0

    jgrig0 Active Member Thread Starter

    I remember that when Wild Thing came out it was released on two different record labels simultaneously. It was on Atco Records as well as Fontana Records. It seemed like it was mainly released on Fontana in my area but on Atco in other areas. How did this happen? This has probably been covered before on here but I missed it. I know that sometimes records will appear first on a regional or independent label before being picked up by a major but both of these were major labels. Give me a full report.............
     
  2. Beatle Terr

    Beatle Terr Super Senior SH Forum Member Musician & Guitarist

    First I ever heard of that. Why??? Well I get where your coming from that a major label would pick them up for say the groups next hit record.

    Now here's my question, Wild Thing being thier first hit 45 which I got on the BLUE colored FONTANA label. Why was "With A Girl Like You" also released on the same Blue colored 45 on FONTANA???

    Was the LP on Fontana or was it released on ACTO? How's that for another stupid question of the day! HA!!:laugh: :D
     
  3. Dr. Weber

    Dr. Weber New Member

    Location:
    USA
    I own what I always assumed was a first American edition of the album... on Atco... purchased from the cutout bins circa 1969-70.

    Dr. Weber
     
  4. jgrig0

    jgrig0 Active Member Thread Starter

    Here in Cincinnati, I saw the Wild Thing 45 on both Atco and Fontana, but usually on Fontana. According to Joel Whitburn's Top Pop Singles book, the first 3 singles were on both Atco and Fontana but the later ones were strictly on Fontana. I wonder if there was some weird deal where some regions were printed on one label and some regions were on another label? It's a mystery! It might also be a deal where Atco had passed over the option of releasing it and then when Wild Thing broke big decided to jump on the bandwagon ala the Beatles Capitol deal. I'm sure one of you can solve this.
     
  5. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    Same here...mine is still sealed. I also have the first LP on Fontana.

    In my experience, the Fontana issues of both the "Wild Thing" single and album are more common. But I don't really know the full story behind how both labels were involved.
     
  6. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    I understand the story being it was a b-side on Fontana, and Atco ended up with the master (presumably a safety of the single master) from a package deal they had with Fontana, and thus was able to prove they had the right to release it.
     
  7. rene smalldridge

    rene smalldridge Senior Member

    Location:
    manhattan,kansas
    Around these parts, I only ever saw the ATCO album version back in the day. Never saw a Fontana Troggs album til the late 70s. However I saw both Fontana and Atco singles back when the band first hit.
     
  8. bob g.

    bob g. Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Are you a regional or independent boss???
     
  9. Beatle Terr

    Beatle Terr Super Senior SH Forum Member Musician & Guitarist

    Now that's funny!!:laugh: :laugh: CLASSIC even!!!:bigeek: :uhhuh:
     
  10. bob g.

    bob g. Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yes I can, the answer is...... major boss.
     
  11. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member

    Location:
    moscow
    Guess it's a threadcrap but what Troggs CDs do I need - I saw a few on Repertoire but they are remastered by Eroc so I'm not sure I will like 'em as I'm not a big fan of his style. Guess I need a good 2-CD anthology or are there albums worth checking out completely? I really like their raw garage sound.
     
  12. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

    Location:
    Boomer OK
    There was the great box set a few years ago, early copies of which had excerpts from the (real) infamous Trogg Tapes!
     
  13. Gary Mack

    Gary Mack Active Member

    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    For those who prefer the original vinyl 45, find the Atco singles. They sound far better than the Fontana 45s, which sound like they were cut from dubs of the Atco tapes but without any bass.

    GM
     
  14. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    A few things:

    By 1966 Atco was actively looking for British Invasion acts to sign. They landed (heh)one Who single, the bowdlerized "Substitute"; and, for a few 45's, the Spencer Davis Group("Keep On Running," the first(UK)version of "Somebody Help Me"). The Troggs were next, and it's possible Larry Page, their producer, made the deal with Atco. Only problem: Fontana had first right of refusal in the US, and they of course wanted to give the Troggs a shot.

    The first Troggs 45 in my collection was Atco 6415, "Wild Thing"/"With A Girl Like You," which were their first two UK Fontana A-sides. Not long after that, Fontana 1548 turned up, "Wild Thing"/"From Home," which was the UK release. Kinda strange to have one hit on two different 45's at once, but kinda cool, too...:D

    Then came "With A Girl Like You"/"I Want You," Fontana 1552; again, the UK version. (This must have been confusing for distributors and retailers, at one point in August having three Troggs singles in the warehouse and the racks).

    The end of the hassles came with "I Can't Control Myself"/"Gonna Make You," which was issued in its UK form by both labels(Atco 6444 and Fontana 1557, respectively). The Troggs catalog was thereafter issued solely by Fontana, but not before both labels released the same album with different covers as Atco 33-193 and Fontana MGF 27556(avoid SD33-193 and SGF 67556--they're both rechanneled).

    As for which labels pressed more copies...over the years, I've seen more Fontana's than Atco's for "Wild Thing," but "I Can't Control Myself," about equal. I bought the Fontana Lp first, then the Atco a few years later.

    IIRC, Steve mentioned once that Tom Dowd specially Eq'd the Atco versions, so they should sound slightly different than the Fontana's, presumably dubbed straight from the UK mono's. I do remember the first Atco 45 seeming punchier than the Fontana.

    :ed:
     
  15. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Correct! Based on a discussion that I had with Steve via e-mail some time back, we determined that Tom Dowd compressed the ATCO Troggs singles by about 50%, added echo and boosted the low end +1 or +2 @150hz. This gave the ATCO versions the punch they had on AM radio.

    Bob-:)
     
  16. John Carsell

    John Carsell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northwest Illinois
    On the CD "45's On CD" remastered by Dennis Drake, there's obvious distortion on "Love Is All Around." Are all copies like this?
     
  17. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    John,

    Every version of the Mono mix that I have has the distortion. I recall the original 45 having the distortion. The fairly recent first-time Stereo mix does not. This would suggest that the distortion is part of the Mono mix down...

    Bob-:)
     
  18. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    One can assume, then, that it was Atco that got the ball rolling, and their DJ 45 was the one most stations played back in the day. That was not likely the case with "With A Girl Like You," since it charted many weeks later, as "Wild Thing" topped the charts, suggesting it was Fontana's issue of that one that prompted the airplay and sales, though Billboard listed both labels, as it did the first time.

    I don't have the Atco 45 kicking around here, but both A & B of 6415 are listed under producer credits in Billboard as having a 'York-Pala' connection(I remember that Page One was listed on the 45, which would make sense). Y/P was a production duo, IIRC, that also produced or managed other acts. If they did get a credit, this would suggest, since they weren't involved with the UK production, they might have made the deal that led to Atco's issuing three singles and an album before Fontana obtained total control of the Troggs' recordings for the US. Unfortunately, from a commercial standpoint, and despite the quality of the 45's, including the fine "Give It To Me," the group had no luck in '67 and in '68, "Love Is All Around" would be their final US hit. The mono mix has indeed always had inherent distortion(just to be sure, tracked down a Dj 45), and the stereo mix is much cleaner. I'm not sure, however, that removing grunge and distortion from the 'Troggs sound' does them any favors...:D

    :ed:
     
  19. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Ed,

    I think there were stations who simply "flipped" their ATCO DJ 45. In most of the markets I listened to at the time, station surveys listed the single as a twin "A" side with both getting airplay. This varied by market, of course. The ATCO "With A Girl Like You" has the same Tom Dowd mastering characteristics as "Wild Thing".

    Bob-:)
     
  20. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    That may well be the case for *some* stations, but the delay between the chartings of "Wild Thing" and "With A Girl Like You" seem connected to Fontana's releasing that latter some weeks after already putting out the former to compete with the Atco 45. Fontana's people were certainly aware that "Girl" was on the flip of "Wild Thing," and as it was a UK A-side, decided to push it separately, which then brought it onto the national charts. It would not appear that Atco's release of the 45 alone was capable of that, since it stayed off until the Fontana single appeared.

    As for where the singles were released, both were national, of course. But it's very likely that some stores simply stocked one or the other, and not both, since it would have seemed to most buyers a duplication. That would explain why, in one city, a fan would have seen one label but not the other. But once you bought one copy, were you really looking for the second?

    :ed:
     
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