The true weight of audiophile LPs. What's the deal?

Not sure if many here do this. I have a kitchen/food scale that I use to weigh LPs. Got the idea from a couple of members in the What Are You Listening To Now On Vinyl threads earlier in 2009, who were weighing their LPs.

After purchasing audiophile LPs for about 10 years now, I think I can sort of tell if the LP is heavier or lighter than the stated weight on the sticker on the LP jacket.

I received several LPs for Christmas. Yesterday I cracked open the Reprise/Warner 140 gram Neil Young - Neil Young remaster LP. It seemed light to me. I put it on the scale. It only weighs 125 grams.

Today I opened the 180 gram Rhino/RTI Elvis Costello - My Aim Is True reissue/remaster LP cut by Kevin Gray. The LP felt very lilght so I put it on the scale. It's only 144 grams. I'm willing to go plus or minus 4 to 5 grams but 36 grams? Sheesh. It's also the same with LPs advertised as 180 grams and end up being close to or over 200 grams. Where's the quality control here?

I randomly grabbed some 180 gram LPs from the my collection that I purchased new, in this decade, and weighed them. Here is the list. Only 1 LP was exactly 180 grams with a couple of others within 2 grams of 180.

The Doors - Morrison Hotel - Elektra/Rhino/RTI - actual weight - 216 grams
Bob Dylan - Greatest Hits - Sundazed MONO - actual weight - 184 grams
Bob Dylan -Blonde On Blonde - Sundazed MONO - LP 1 is 174 grams - LP 2 is 172 grams
Joni Mitchell - Blue - Reprise/RTI - 192 grams
Van Morrison - Astral Weeks - Warner/RTI - 202 grams
Mudcrutch - Mudcrutch - Reprise - LP 1 204 grams - LP 2 - 186 grams
The Only One - The Only Ones - Pure Pleasure U.K. - 182 grams
Roy Orbison - All-Time Greatest Hits - S&P - LP 1 is 174 grams - LP 2 is 180 grams
Linda Ronstadt - Heart Like A Wheel - 188 grams
Steely Dan - Aja - 182 grams
James Taylor - Sweet Baby James - 196 grams
The Who - Quadrophenia - LP 1 is 204 grams - LP 2 is 202 grams
Wilco - Sky Blue Sky - LP 1 is 194 grams - LP 2 is 192 grams
Link Wray And His Ray Men - Swan Singles Collection - LP 1 is 174 grams - LP 2 is 178 grams
ZZ Top - Tres Hombres - 206 grams

Anybody else ever weigh their LPs? Curious to know if anyone else is getting short changed on supposed 180 gram vinyl. This is of particular concern since reissue companies such as Classics Records have different prices for their 140g, 150, 180g and 200 gram LPs.

Just checked Classics Records Web site.

http://www.classicrecords.com/search.cfm

They have The Who - By Numbers 150g LP for $20.00 U.S. The 200g LP is $33.00 U.S. So maybe the local retailer selling the 144 gram Elvis Costello LP can give me back $13. Yeah...that's wishful thinking.

 

I get the feeling that a heavier vinyl lp is "higher quality" when I pick one up and handle it, but that idea is just a notion on my part. I have super light, thin records that sound fantastic and some recent 'heavy' vinyl records that are dull as hell.

From now on, if there's a choice between 140g or 150g and 180g/220g and $10 or $15 difference in price, I'm going cheaper, especially if we're getting shortchanged as you suggest. From a sound quality perspective I think mastering/cutting have far greater effect than vinyl weight, though I wonder if the heavier the vinyl the more resistant it would be to wear or damage...

Dale

 

Geez, what else will you guys find to complain about?

Do you even know that your kitchen scale is accurate?

 

But even if the scale is off by, say, 10 grams, it's relative and all those albums still wouldn't be close to their advertised weights.

And I wouldn't call what he wrote complaining.

 

180g pre-cutting. Like a quarter pounder.

 

Please don't generalize Mr. Tonepub. When is the last time I complained to you about anything? It's not complaining at all. I want to know where the quality control is. And I think it's a rip-off paying $33. for a supposed 180 gram LP that turns out to be 144 grams.

Look, if there was no price difference between a 140 gram, 150 gram, 180 gram and 200 gram LP, there'd be no discussion here. There is a big price difference. If we're paying $33. we better be getting a 180 or 200 gram LP plus or minus a few grams. If not then Rhino, Sundazed, Capitol, Universal, etc. should only be charging $20. or so using roughly the same pricing as Classic Records.

Maybe Steve or Kevin or Rob LoVerde or other mastering/cutting engineers could tell us about how the weight is set for various LP pressings.

As mentioned even if my kitchen scale is off 10 grams, how do you explain the results from the Elvis Costello LP and the Doors LP? I could tell right away when I first took those LPs out of the inner sleeves that the weight was way off. That is poor quality control.

I've previously tested the scale. I just tested it again. I put in a sealed 200 gram block of medium cheddar cheese. On the scale it weighed 198 grams. Close enough for me.

I think 4, 5 years ago Steve mentioned something about re-calibrating a tone arm when you put a on 200 gram LP. So, the 216 gram Doors LP could be a big issue for some turntables and tone arms with the buyer not realising they have a 200 gram + LP spinning on their platter.

 

Interesting thread subject matter.

 

Well in my limited experience the heavier vinyl has sounded a lot better. I purchased the 150 gram Who - Quadrophenia and 150 gram Who's Next Classic reissues a year and half or so ago. Both titles were noisy, the vinyl had scuff marks on it and LP 1 of Quadrophenia was warped. I took the LPs back to the local shop. I exchanged them for the "Heavy Weight" Quadrophenia. The heavier LP set I got was a much better flat and quiet pressing.

 

I agree, from what I've found the 180 gram declaration is commonly plus or minus between 5 - 10 grams and sometimes more.

Kinda wacky QC for a something that, AFAIK, starts with a basic mechanical raw product extrusion allotment ...

 

I think your experience is limited, with all due respect. There is virtually no correlation, in my fairly extensive experience, between LP mass and sound quality. It's much more dependent on recording, mastering and pressing quality. I've got 120 gram flexy Galaxy Records that sound fantastic and 200 gram LPs that sound like crap. The LPs that sound best are original issue LPs from about 1955 through about 1970.

With respect to weighing, unless you do a statistically valid measurement systems analysis (gage R&R), I'm not going to put any stock in your measurements.

Lastly, haven't you got better things to do? Like listen to music rather than worrying about such things?

 

No, actually, it's pretty silly.

 

and I agree with that statement also.

Not so sure about that, think the query is based in wonder rather than worry ...

 

Well, yeah, I would agree with that, but...c'mon...

 

It seems that my recent "heavy" vinyl purchases have more mass & weight so that the omnipresent warpage can be stiffer and more pronounced...
It seems to be of little value to have heavier vinyl which is more resistant to sympathetic vibration when being read by the needle if the content (mastering) is not absolute 1st rate.
Gine me one of those late '70's/early '80's MFSL issues on paper thin "virgin" vinyl any day... They sound BETTER.

 

What sounds good is the 1959 mono deep-groove Blue Note of Cannonball Adderley's Somethin' Else that I'm listening to right now.

 

Got a few Jimi Hendrix's LPs. They are really heavy!! :>)

 

I don't get it.

These 180 gram LPs listed are mostly heavier than 180 grams - except for a couple which are only a few grams under. I don't really see any short changing going on.

 

I don't know if there is any real correlation between sound quality of a perfectly flat 140g and 180 g pressing. I was always told the heavier slab of vinyl was a little less likely to warp...

 

Silly reply.

 

Weighing LPs on your kitchen scale? yikes.

Sometimes this place really becomes a parody of itself.

 

Selling England Vinyl By The Pound

 

Gage R&R?

You have to be in Quality Control yourself (or in an industry that embraces those concepts). It takes one to spot one...

 

In pressing the heavier weights can be more problematic due to diffential cooling on the outer diameter. You basicly get cyclic sub bumps. The thinner the vinyl, the more even the cooling...but they're bendy and more prone to warpage. So I guess it's a lot of aethsetics and a balance between the two extremes