"The Velvet Underground": Speculative 3rd LP 45th Anniversary Super Deluxe Box

With the recent announcement of a 45th Anniversary Edition of the VU's WHITE LIGHT/WHITE HEAT, it seems increasingly likely we'll get a corresponding 3rd album set next year. The possibilities for such a collection are vast, as this era in the VU's career easily has the most relevant extant live material, and if reports are accurate, Universal are in possession of all the session tapes as well, so you have to imagine compelling studio alternates will likely be available. What's more, an argument could be made for also including the remaining VU/ANOTHER VIEW tracks here (perhaps in their vintage mixes, where possible). In which case, you have a set that one could easily imagine boasting 8 or more CDs --far outstripping the previous 6CD VU&N box or the 3CD WL/WH set-- but not outside the reasonable expectations of comprehensive (and expensive) sets like these can support.

 

For starters, I think the first 3 discs are pretty predicable (though not necessarily in this order): The Valentin Mix; The "Closet Mix"; The radio-only "Special Fold-Down" mix (featured on Sundazed box set from last year). There are also dedicated mono mixes to "What Goes On" and "Jesus" that would certainly find a place on one of these discs. And given that the WL/WH box includes vocal-only and instrumental versions of "The Gift", I'd speculate that they'd be inclined to do something similar with "The Murder Mystery", perhaps with two new mixes, one that emphasizes the "left channel story" and the other the "right channel story."

 

The WL/WH box has already scooped up the relevant VU and ANOTHER VIEW material to that era, so it seems logical that the remaining tracks from those sets will be utilized here.

There is an argument to be made for a stand-alone "Lost 4th Album" collection, but unless there is A LOT more in the archive than previously known, it's hard to imagine how that concept support a full box set.

Does anyone have a handy list of which songs from those sessions have known vintage mixes? If not, I can work on compiling such a list.

 

Personally I'd be a bit surprised and disappointed if they did that. The dark beauty and fright of that unique and amazing song would be totally neutralised by officially dissecting it like that. Besides, The Murder Mystery isn't even remotely a story / backing track like The Gift is, it's a far greater sonic thing with the duelling voices as one part of that. I'd be surprised if Reed would allow it, although I guess anything's possible these days when $ are involved. And if they did it I just wouldn't play it

 

I love Murder Mystery just the way it is.
As regards to the "Lost 4th Album", there's certainly a good selection of original mixes, acetate demos, rehearsals, and of course TONS of high quality live material from that era. It could make a superb deluxe set. Be nice if it wasn't prohibitively expensive too.

 

Bump just because I love the thought of a deluxe VU set (and a possible "4th album") and all the possibilities.

 

I could see this fitting onto six discs, though the live material could obviously expand to fill more.

1: Closet Mix, plus (fingers crossed) 3rd album demos, outtakes and alternates. I wonder if the different take of 'Some Kinda Love' from the Valentin mix received a 'closet' mix (or vice versa)?

2: Valentin Mix, plus 3rd album demos, outtakes and alternates, if available.

3: Mono 'radio' version of the album, plus stray mono mixes ('What Goes On', 'Jesus', anything else they can find)

4: 'Fourth album' tracks, including alternate versions if available. Assuming they don't go overboard with multiple mixes of the same recordings, this material would all fit on a single disc, right? Period or sympathetic-to-period mixes preferred (but unlikely?).

5 & 6: Live material. Presumably a complete concert, maybe more than one.


I also love the idea of having a separate release for the 'fourth album' material, with its own attendant live discs, but that seems extremely unlikely.

 

On the WL/WH thread, people have speculated about the possibility of a Live 1969 box that compiles all the available Matrix & End of Cole Ave material. That would certainly be pretty much a definitive live document of the era if it came to be. And if such a set were forthcoming, I could certainly get behind the concept of keeping the 3rd album Super Deluxe an all-studio collection, supplementing the studio alternates of that album with all the available 4th Album material.

 

The third album live period should definitely have it's own box set as there is just such a wealth of live material and the band is just in peak form on most of the stuff I've heard. But I really doubt this will ever see a release unless the studio boxes sell really well.

 

Yep. In a perfect world, the live material SHOULD have it's own set. As it stands, I'm stunned there was enough commercial response to the first box (which I thought was spectacular, but I understood how less die hard fans might think was overkill) to justify a WL/WH set, let alone the still-unconfirmed 3rd set. So for now I'll continue to advocate putting the Matrix material on the 3rd album set (assuming a deal can be worked out) mostly because I fear it simply won't happen otherwise, but if fans keep on supporting this series of big boxes, a dedicated live box would be IDEAL. Sublime, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Does anyone know, what songs are on the "Matrix tapes? Is there a setlist?

 

Although they took very different approaches, I think both "The Gift" and "The Murder Mystery" are examples of The Velvets trying to take an artistic approach to extreme stereo separation, and, as such, the possibility of offering those tracks in different mixes can potentially be intriguing. No, I don't think the results will be "better" but they could prove to be fascinating. And hey, if a multi-disc set devoted to a single LP isn't the place for "dissecting" I don't know what is!

 

Much as I don't need it, I'm probably going to buy the box set of WL/WH just to support the series as I'd love for it to go to the third album at the very least. And I'm with you, I thought the box for VU & Nico was excellent, and having the Valleydale show in best ever quality made the set for me. I also thought the mono box was (pressing/packaging issues aside) very well done, with definitive (for me, anyway) versions of the 3rd album and Chelsea Girl.

 

I'd love to know the answer to this question, too. I've never seen it. There are known to be 42 tracks surviving in the Abrams archive. The Unterberger book lays out the scope of the material in broad terms, but I haven't seen it presented on a track-by-track basis so far.

 

Yes, I found this on his (Richie Unterberger) website:

"Live at the Matrix in San Francisco, November-December 1969: Though Velvet Underground recordings (and great ones) at the Matrix in November form the bulk of the classic album 1969 Velvet Underground Live, it's been confirmed that about four hours of unissued material from their performances at the club this fall exist. It's known that 42 such songs survive on half-inch, four-track tape. Among them are versions of a few tunes not to appear on 1969 Velvet Underground Live, including three of "There She Goes Again," two of both "Venus in Furs" and "After Hours," and one apiece of "The Black Angel's Death Song," "I'm Set Free," and "Sister Ray." There are also additional, as-yet-unreleased Matrix versions of most of the songs that do make it onto 1969 Velvet Underground Live, including no less than four of "Heroin," and more than one of a few of the others.

Two-to-three-minute excerpts of nine of these tracks and a seven-minute excerpt of "Sister Ray"—all starting at the beginning of the songs, and fading out mid-performance—that have leaked into circulation verify that the sound quality on these recordings is outstanding, and notably (though not hugely) superior to the tapes used on 1969 Velvet Underground Live. Of even more interest, the performances themselves are good-to-superb, including a version of the rarely-heard "There She Goes Again" with noticeably more jagged rhythm guitar than the studio cut; "I'm Set Free" with magnificent Reed lead vocals; a really slowed-down "I'm Waiting for the Man" with great curling blues guitar riffing, and a cool interjection of ominously stroked chords right after the white boy's asked what he's doing uptown; and a "Sister Ray" that starts off super-slow and bluesy, but just keeps accelerating in rhythm and intensity until the tape cruelly cuts off. If not quite as novel, the other excerpts—including "Ocean," "Some Kinda Love" (introduced as "an alcoholic's dream"), "The Black Angel's Death Song," "After Hours," and two versions of "Venus in Furs"—likewise make the Velvet Underground fan yearn for the day when these tapes can be released."

http://www.richieunterberger.com/vubeg.html

 

'The Matrix Tapes' really does sound like it needs to be a standalone release, or a deluxe version of '1969 Live'. I doubt that all of that material could be folded into an already stacked deluxe edition of the third album.

 

Count me in for a super-deluxe multi-disc third LP reissue; count me out of a deluxe "1969 Live" unless it's a full remix from the original multi-tracks.

 

As far as the Dallas portion of Live 1969, according to the liner notes for the End Cole Avenue boot, there was 1 mike on Lou's mike, and one stage mike, so I don't know how much remixing they can do. If they use this for a reconfigured 1969 it will make for great listening as it's generally agreed that the Cole Avenue tapes are better quality sound-wise than the ones used for 1969.

 

ChrisM did a thread on this I believe a while back...may be worth looking up...

 

If the 1969 Live Matrix material was reissued, I think it can be assumed it would involve a full remix. After all, the released tracks have been described as coming from rough mix-downs, and, if memory serves, I think some of them came from acetates (I could have that wrong). I suspect the only point to re-issing 1969 Live at all, whether it's in the original configuration or as part of an expanded box, would be if they had access to the original tapes.

The End of Cole Ave material is a bit better on bootleg, so it's not inconceivable they could swap in a few tracks directly from the bootleg if they don't have access to the original tapes. But even then, that's just a small portion of the album/s. The only way I can imagine this set being remastered is if they work out a deal with Abrams, and if that's the case, I'd assume they'd have access to his full archive, in which case a larger set becomes a real possibility.

 

I was just listening to "I Can't Stand It" from VU and was wondering if mixes of those songs without the terrible 80s reverb have ever been officially released. I don't have any of the box sets that have been released over the years.

 

This is what I think/hope the deluxe edition of the 3rd album is going to look like:

5-Disc set

DISC ONE:
(The Valentin Mix)

Candy Says
What Goes On
Some Kinda Love
Pale Blue Eyes
Jesus
Beginning To See The Light
I'm Set Free
That's The Story Of My Life
The Murder Mystery
After Hours
BONUS TRACKS (2014 Remixes):
I Can't Stand It
She's My Best Friend
Lisa Says
Ocean
Foggy Notion
One Of These Days
Andy's Chest
I'm Sticking With You
We're Gonna Have A Real Good Time Together
I'm Gonna Move Right In
Ride Into The Sun
Coney Island Steeplechase
Ferryboat Bill
Rock And Roll

DISC TWO:
(Closet Mix)

Candy Says
What Goes On
Some Kinda Love
Pale Blue Eyes
Jesus
Beginning To See The Light
I'm Set Free
That's The Story Of My Life
The Murder Mystery
After Hours
BONUS TRACKS:
Alternate takes??
Mono mixes??

DISC THREE, FOUR and FIVE:

Live At The Matrix, November 1969:
Lisa Says
What Goes On
Sweet Jane
We're Gonna Have A Real Good Time Together
New Age
Rock And Roll
Beginning To See The Light
Heroin
Ocean
Heroin
Some Kinda Love
Over You
Sweet Bonnie Brown/It's Just Too Much
White Light/White Heat
I Can't Stand It
PREVIOUSLY UNRELEASED:
3x There She Goes Again
2x Venus in Furs
2x After Hours
The Black Angel's Death Song
I'm Set Free
Sister Ray
4x Heroin
I'm Waiting for the Man
Ocean
Some Kinda Love

And hopefully some more songs??

 

It could go either way, but I think they might include the 'unreleased 4th album' stuff on a future Loaded set. After all it was recorded after the 3rd album was released, in the run up to recording Loaded, and they might want to beef up Maureen's presence on that set.

Unless they're not doing a deluxe version Loaded, since there's already the Completely Loaded set.

 

Loaded belongs to Warners, so it is unlikely Loaded era tracks will be mixed with material controlled by Universal.

 

Bill Levenson just posted a picture of the album cover as his Facebook cover photo, without comment...