I'd hold-off, at least until the Matrix box comes out. You're in a rare position to hear all this material fresh. I wouldn't throw that away! After that, LIVE 1969 is a superbly compiled collection but I wouldn't be surprised to see a remastered version, using the best possible tape sources, in the near future. Personally, I'd recommend getting it eventually. But it will be highly redundant (quite how redundant remains to be seen-- until we hear the Matrix box, I don't think we'll have 100% confirmation that Abram's archives still includes ALL the exact same Matrix performances heard on LIVE 1969, but it probably has versions of all the songs). For the End of Cole Ave tracks on LIVE 1969, the tape used on the current bootleg is an improvement over what's heard on the official release-- but as @rnranimal mentioned, it seems like Universal have an even better quality version of the tape. There are 4 performances on LIVE 1969 from Cole Ave. Of them, "Waiting For The Man" seems very similar to the Matrix version (heard on the 3rd album box) . "Pale Blue Eyes" is fairly distinct from the Matrix version we've heard. We don't yet know if there will be versions of "Femme Fatale" or "I'll Be Your Mirror" on the upcoming box . Until you decide to dive deep into the Velvets, my instinct is the Cole Ave tracks alone may not be enough to warrant purchase. It's unknown if Universal will ever issue End of Cole Ave-The Second Night officially, but it seems to be in their interest to spdo so, for copyright reasons if nothing else. PS: There is also a "First Night" bootleg out there. It's of lesser sound quality to the 2nd Night show but still quite listenable. None of its contents were used on LUVE 1969.
I love the Matrix stuff on the third album box and have been listening to it since it came out. So I'm happy to have it, and happy to be getting more of it. But from a "I like things nice and tidy" logical perspective, the Matrix stuff shouldn't have been sampled in the 3rd album box. The 4 discs we're getting now should have been paired with the upgraded second night End Of Cole Avenue, supplemented with anything (if there is anything) that is on Live 1969 but missing from the upgraded Matrix tapes. Boom, you've got a deluxe Live 1969 box that fully supplants the original album, without the redundancy of having 2 discs worth of Matrix stuff released twice within a year.
That's my feeling as well. I'll be curious to see how many songs are unique to the 4-disc set. I'd guess that it will mostly be repeats, different performances of songs that are on the Super Deluxe third album. But it would be nice to hear the actual "sets" without editing, all the songs and patter as it went down.
As far the Quine Tapes, The Matrix Tapes on the 3rd LP box included the same performances of "Sister Ray" and "Rock 'n' Roll" (which was ALSO the same performance heard on LIVE 1969!). As for the still-unreleased Matrix Tapes, "The Black Angel's Death Song" is the same performance from Quine. Some people have suggested the Matrix version of the slow "I'm Waiting For The Man" is the same performance heard on Quine, but they're mistaken. It's a different performance of the same basic arrangement. Are there any others that escaped my attention? Remains to be seen how much more overlap there will be. But the leap in sound quality is so dramatic I don't mind any redundancy here.
I only bought the super deluxe third set earlier this year so it's pretty quick for a re-buy. But I was totally blown away by the sound quality on the Matrix recordings. What a gift.
You took the words out of my mouth. I was going to make the same point re: the Matrix discs on the 3rd LP Super Deluxe box. My theory is that Universal and/or The Velvets paid so much for the Matrix Tapes they had to double dip (triple, if you include the 2CD 3rd LP set) to justify the purchase. But it does create a major redundancy in what was otherwise a rather tidy reissue campaign. Not to mention Cole Ave remains orphaned. They might yet quadruple-dip if a LIVE 1969 remaster materializes.
Well, how can a LIVE 1969 remaster NOT materialize at this point? Even if they don't expand it, it would be a travesty to have the same material in superior sound on one release and inferior sound on another.
From the description of the way the Matrix tapes were compiled, it sounds like much of the original context is lost forever. It doesn't sound like an attempt was made to preserve any sets, but performances were replaced when "better" performances of the same song were recorded. I opt for the Cole Avenue bootlegs for the reasons you describe.
Yep. Both Abram and Quine only seemed to preserve their favorite individual performances, not complete shows. So a lot of the context seems lost to history. But APPARENTLY there is one known "setlist", taken from the description of an audience recording found on Olivier Landemaine's superb web site: December 3, 1969 Tape: audience reel-to-reel recording from alternate source, two sets recorded. Status: uncirculated. First set: 1.Waiting For The Man 2.Good Time Together 3.Some Kinda Love 4.Pale Blue Eyes 5.Beginning To See The Light 6.I'm Set Free 7.Heroin Second set: 1.There She Goes Again 2.Here I Go Again 3.Lisa Says 4.After Hours 5.I'm Sticking With You 6.The New Age 7.Sweet Jane 8.Ride Into The Sun [credited as Right Into The Son] 9.Here Come The Wave 10.Sister Ray [encore]
Hell, I'm an obsessive enough fan to want a reissue just to get volumes 1&2 released together in one set on CD! It's an album in its own right, and an amazing one at that. It deserves to be treated with greater respect.
By the way, if anyone is confused by the unfamiliar titles, "Here I Go Again" is certainly "Over You" and "Here Come The Wave" is "Ocean."
Thanks, as always, for the comprehensive and relevant information. I am bit confused though - you say "non-audience" but the listing says "audience". Is this audience recording an "alternate source" to an in-line recording of the same show? Or are there two audience sources from the same concert?
aren't "Sweet Bonnie Brown/It's Just Too Much" also from the Matrix? Unterberger includes them in his discussion.
When this set comes out and I start listening, it's going to take all my willpower not to skip to "New Age"-- assuming of course there is still at least one version of the song in the Abram archive (I think it's a good bet, but I haven't seen that fact specifically confirmed).
I'm determined to listen to them as sequenced. But that will result in me being extremely pissed off if Discs 1 & 2 are just the discs from the 3rd LP box! Which is almost certainly not the case. I mean there are 4 known Abram versions of "Heroin" and 3 performances of "There She Goes Again." So based on basic math, unless they want to have multiple version of some songs on any given disc, they'll almost certainly sequence these sets from scratch.
My other act of willpower will be not to blame the Universal team if there ISN'T a version of "New Age" in the archive. Assuming they're releasing the full set of tapes they acquired, it's obviously not their fault if Abram didn't happen to preserve a version of "New Age." But it's hard to express how disappointed I'd be if that turns out to be the case.
I would hope that's the the case as well (not repeating the 3rd album box discs as-is). I'm very surprised they are doing this. I'm personally glad they seem to be issuing the complete Matrix tapes as that's what I'd always preferred, but I thought that was not going to happen anytime soon after 2 discs of it were used as a major selling point in the 3rd box a year ago. I thought, like others here, that a deluxe 1969 with the Matrix remainders plus End Cole would be much more likely. What I really hope they don't do is pull something like leaving a few tracks exclusive to the 3rd album box. The Matrix box needs to be everything they have.
That would be extremely disappointing. I think it would be pretty strange for Abram to have not kept any performance when we know he had at least one, but things happen. Also, I remember it being mentioned that someone confirmed that all 1969 Live versions are present on the Matrix tapes. But I can't remember who said it and who confirmed it, so that's not worth much. I believe it was mentioned on here in discussion of the 3rd album before before release.
Aside from the specific track listing on this release, I'm wondering on the timing of this - Almost one year away from Lou Reed's death (October 27, 2013), is this an indication that Polydor has "more leeway" for such releases? Or, was this planned for years, and had the approval of Reed, Cale, and Tucker along with the Anniversary editions? Just wondering if any label announcements, band member interviews ever seemed to mention any such projects or possibilities.
Not that I've heard. I've wondered about that too. But the fact remains, after years of draught, the recent VU releases feel like a flood. But they began before Lou's death, and I suspect the overall plans were made at a point that he would have had input if he so desired. Presumably, he signed off on the overall direction at the very least.
