The Who-Meaty Beaty Big & Bouncy vinyl reissue

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by beatleswho, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    Believe me, I am baffled by it - but they have definitely used fake stereo versions and indicated them as so on the label! My only thought is they have used the compiled master tape for this album but I don't think it sounds close enough to the original for this to be the case - in the gatefold it says remastered by Jon Astley so that suggests it's digital - as I say I am completely baffled as to why they've used fake stereo tracks, but they definitely have.
     
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  2. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    That is baffling. I’m surpised that a Who reissue has been botched. That’s never happened in the past!
     
  3. landerstnkb

    landerstnkb Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Very disappointed I didn’t see this thread before I purchased the re-released Live At Leeds. I was not happy when I did not hear the backwards guitar on Magic Bus and realized I had been listening to a later remix. Why the fudge would they mislead by putting a sticker on it saying “The original six-track album from 1970, remastered and reissued on heavyweight 180 gram vinyl”? If I had known it was a remix I never would have purchased it. The MBB&B reissue looks and sounds fantastic however. I read on The Who message board Astley found the original Apple Studios master tapes for MBB&B and used those for this reissue.
     
  4. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    As if that was actually a good thing.
     
  5. Sid Hartha

    Sid Hartha Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Midwest
    Judging by the comments in this thread, I'd say this is a guarantee that the original master tape was used - as the original release had the exact same combination of mono, stereo and fake stereo tracks.
    No kidding. So many here would gladly take AAA over something that sounds better. Because analog.
     
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  6. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    Astley must have thought he'd struck gold with that tape - "This'll make 'em happy!"

    Consider the lot of the unlucky mastering engineer. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. No wonder every pro we get here (besides our host) eventually flees.

    (This applies to all of 'em - I realize Astley comes with his own baggage for many fans when it comes to The 'Oo.)
     
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  7. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Analogue fake stereo is the best fake stereo.

    There's a problem in this case, but it isn't borderline mentally ill fans on a message board.
     
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  8. wino14

    wino14 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Edenton, NC
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  9. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    That would be why I mentioned Astley's baggage. Have there been many other handpicked archivists/mastering engineers who are so totally hopeless?
     
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  10. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I have no issues with Live at Leeds. In fact, I’m much happier with Leeds than MBB&B. I was under the assumption that both albums would be sourced from digital and cut by Miles Showell. Had I known that the original master for MBB&B was used for the reissue, I would have passed.
     
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  11. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Lukpac should be in charge of The Who’s archive.
     
  12. Deano6

    Deano6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Plymouth, NC, USA
    Miles' name is in the dead wax.
     
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  13. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    That became apparent to me shortly after joining this forum.
     
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  14. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    That's interesting - makes a lot of sense and that would explain why we have fake stereo tracks on a 2017 release! I didn't think the new LP was identical enough sonically to an original pressing for this to be the case, but clearly what has happened is some tinkering has happened and it's been digitally remastered from that very tape - still amazing that these fake stereo tracks made it to this release - did Jon Astley not notice or didn't care?
     
  15. landerstnkb

    landerstnkb Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Jon Astley finally leaves a Who reissue as close as possible to the original, even going so far as to using the newly found original master tapes, and still the fans are dismayed. Whether we like it or not, fake stereo is part of the Who’s past and it’s how I first heard and remember MBB&B.
     
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  16. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Using fake stereo copies for remasters went out of fashion 30 years ago, for good reason.
     
  17. landerstnkb

    landerstnkb Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Yes, but it's how these songs were released on MBB&B back in 1971 and Astley (finally) kept to the original. The fake stereo versions of Beatles songs were used on the Capitol Albums box sets and fans were happy because that is how they remember hearing those songs. Personally I'm fine with the fake stereo songs on this MBB&B reissue as it's how I remember first hearing them. And this reissue really does sound great!
     
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  18. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Can someone PLEASE try to explain to me what the big crime was in reissuing this album with the same mixes taken from the original master? It's very affordable, most report that it's a quality pressing that sounds good... So what's the big problem? I took out my almost-50-year-old US Decca copy yesterday and played it through. It's still in surprisingly good condition and I totally enjoyed the experience from start to finish. Not an "audiophile" recording by any means, but it did sound quite good with some tracks noticeably better than others.

    This is the way I remember MBBB sounding in my youth: warts, "enhanced" stereo and all. If I were to lose this record or find it to be worn out or otherwise damaged, I would be absolutely elated to be able to buy a brand new clean replacement for 20-something dollars that's true to the original! If I want mono, real stereo, different mixes, etc., I have PLENTY of other viable sources for that. But that's not what MBBB is.
     
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  19. landerstnkb

    landerstnkb Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    What amazes me is Who fans complained when Astley didn't use the original single versions on the recent singles box sets and Maximum A's & B's set (Circles, I Can See For Miles, Pictures of Lily, and 5.15 to name a few) and then lament the fact he used the original fake stereo versions of certain songs on the MBB&B reissue. I've complained in the past about Jon Astley and his disregard for what the fans want but in this case I think he got it right.
     
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  20. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Nothing is from an "original master". The album was a compilation, and everything is at least a generation away from the master tapes. In the case of the Talmy tracks, probably a few generations away.

    That there's nostalgia in 2017 for a misguided attempt to "enhance" mono recordings is entirely baffling. It was a bad idea in 1971 and it's a bad idea in 2017.

    There's no such thing as "original fake stereo versions". The original versions were, and are, mono.
     
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  21. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    You may not like or agree with the original mix choices for MBBB, but if the intention was to replicate that classic compilation album on a vinyl reissue in 2017, I would say that it was successfully accomplished.
     
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  22. landerstnkb

    landerstnkb Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    So Capitol Records shouldn't have reissued the Duophonic Stereo mixes of Beatles songs back in 2004? After all, at that point Capitol had true stereo mixes of their Duophonic Stereo mixes. Apple did this a few years back and people complained.

    And I think you get what I meant when I wrote "original fake stereo versions".
     
  23. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The question is why anyone would want to replicate it that way. People realized that was a bad idea 30+ years ago.

    Apple replaced fake stereo with mono on the 2009 Beatles CDs, and ABKCO replaced fake stereo with mono on the 2002 Rolling Stones CDs. They both made specific points of doing so. Those were positives, not negatives.

    I don't.
     
  24. GetHappy!!

    GetHappy!! Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    Not sure why anyone would be happy with reissuing fake stereo. Sorry, can't give credit for using this comp's original master, considering, as @lukpac said, the original source is at least a generation away. The real work would have been to find better sources and compile it that way.
     
  25. Sid Hartha

    Sid Hartha Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Midwest
    The original version was a product of its time. It was compiled by Pete Townshend, using what tape copies he had access to - which apparently was not optimal. The genius of the record is its track selection and sequence, not the fake stereo.

    Just curious: Does the reissue use the edited (no guitar break) version of "The Kids Are Alright"?
     
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