Thinking of upgrading my stylus/cartridge

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by crazybeats, Aug 21, 2014.

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  1. crazybeats

    crazybeats Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Although I'm unsure what difference will be made. I have a Pro-Ject Genie 3. When I got this in 2009 it came set up in the box. You didn't have to align anything and the store I got it from explained that to me, I got my amp and speakers and phono pre-amp from a different store. They were very nice and at the time you got the Ortofon OM5e which was decent and good and a million miles ahead of what I had at the time. Everything I got and the money I spent was such a big step up from what I had, I was happy. About 2 years later I went to a different set up, i had the turntable on a shelf and I made a silly mistake and lifted the tonearm up while talking to someone and my finger bent back the stylus. I have never understood the whole alignment stuff, I've read the manuals I've watched the videos, I don't get it. I never will get it. I go back to the store and I thought I should go a step up. I can't remember what the next level up from the OM5e was but not only did they not have that, they didn't even have the OM5e in stock, they had the one below that which was the 3e. Straight away I noticed a difference, especially with bass, it just wasn't as heavy, it was a little muddy with everything else but over time it turned out ok and with money and just life in general I have left it. I'm happy with it.


    Every so often I get the urge to upgrade again and I would like to try the 2M. The store I bought from do not have the 2M in stock according to their site and haven't for a while. They did tell me at one point that If I bought the cartridge from them that they would fix it on for me because I don't understand all the stuff to do with weight and putting it at a certain angle. The weights on the Genie 3 are not like the Genie 3 instructions and videos online. The black weight is not labelled in grams or anything so there is no way of knowing how much weight you have on your tonearm. Anyway that is beside the point. I was always told that cartridges and stylus cannot make your records sound better. I noticed a dip in quality going from the 5e to the 3e, not a big one but it was noticable. Then I think about just buying the stylus and would the stylus, like the 3e just go on the cartridge I already have? Does the full cartridge make a big difference compared to just buying the stylus? Would I even notice a difference? I did buy last year a CD player, nothing too expensive or fancy and I know the LPs wont sound like the CDs but there's a pretty big difference there. Sometimes I do prefer the CD sound. I know without spending a ton of money I wont get a setup that matches a CD quality sound but I definately want to better the sound I get from my records because that is the format I listen to the most. I'm just not sure making this specific upgrade is worth it or is going to make any difference to the sound I hear.
     
  2. vonwegen

    vonwegen Forum Resident

    Not a a direct answer to your question, but I upgraded to a Stanton 681eee last week and finally learned how to set it up properly. Your tonearm should have a pull-out section at the back with the tracking weight attached. Set the tracking weight and anti-skate control to zero, then pull out the back section until yourr tone arm hovers perfectly level. That is your basic setting. Then turn the tracking weight control to between 1 and 3 grams, and turn the anti-skate to the same weight setting.

    Aligning your cart is a bit more tricky, but I recommend doing a search for conrad hoffman protractor generator, print that out and follow the instructions on it. It's made a world of difference in my vinyl playback, and makes my rig sound a hell of a lot more expensive than it really is. Of all the turntable set up vids, I recommend Larry's Vintage Audio--that's the clip I used to learn how to do all that.
     
  3. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    It's not too complicated, but I would let the shop do it and watch... that's how I learned.
     
    ghost rider, Ortofun and Upinsmoke like this.
  4. The Good Guy

    The Good Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I would recommend the Ortofon 2M red. I use it on my Gyrodec & it sounds amazing so on the genie it will be the best upgrade to do.
     
  5. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    Highly recommend this. It's not difficult to get close. It's the fine tuning that will drive you crazy. Just be glad you don't have a jmw tonearm.
     
    Ortofun likes this.
  6. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    This should work well. Important to remember that the arm height cannot be adjusted (no VTA) to accommodate different cartridge heights, the 2M & OM5e both are at 20mm (18mm under load).
     
  7. RubenH

    RubenH Forum Resident

    Location:
    S.E. United States
    I had no idea the Stanton was still available. I got one around 1978 and it gave me many years of pleasure. After a long period w/o records, a few years ago I purchased the technics 1200 with the Shure M97Xe. Not to derail the thread, but if anyone has any thoughts as to their relative merits, I'd appreciate it.
     
  8. RubenH

    RubenH Forum Resident

    Location:
    S.E. United States
    editing my previous post: a cursory search on the web reveals that today's Stanton company is manufacturing an inferior product compared to 35 years ago, so I think I will pass on these.
     
  9. crazybeats

    crazybeats Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I have since moved house and there will be no more moving of equipment!

    Since i started this thread I haven't done anything or bought anything. I'm still interested in upgrading the stylus but I wanted opinions from you guys on whether I should upgrade the stylus or buy the cartridge? I'm talking about the Ortofon 2M Red. I know when i went from the 5E to the 3 I was able to slip the old one off and the new one on but I don't know if the cartridge I have is able to take the 2M Red stylus or would I need to buy the actual cartridge? And there's another question, if i am able to simply buy the stylus on its own would that do me fine or would I notice a big difference if i paid the extra money for the full cartridge?


    Colin I want you specifically to talk to me more about the tonearm because as you know the tonearm cannot be moved. The weight that is on the tonearm is not marked. I know this has nothing to do with the genie but since it's the only example online to do with Pro-ject turntables it's the only point of reference I have. Look how his weight has numbers all around it and he says it has to be so many grams and then he adjusts it. You have just said to me that the 2M and 5E are at 20mm. What does that mean for me? Does that mean when i put the stylus or cartridge on I just leave it alone? Remember my weight on my tonearm does not have numbers on it so you can move back and forward, you can put more weight to the left or right of it but you would never know how much or how little weight you are using. I suppose I could take it to the shop but I don't know if they would try and charge me money or not. I want to try it myself but at the same time I don't think I can do it.

    And I also have a question about mats because apparantly they come in different thicknesses which can affect the stylus/cartridge when i get a new one. The felt one I have just now is pretty worn and I don't want to wash it and dry it incase anything is still on it and ruins my records. I was looking at a cork mat or a rubber mat but again I don't know what to get.

     
  10. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Do it.
     
  11. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    Hi
    OK I've downloaded the Genie manual http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=rpm13
    I mentioned the cartridge height being the same for the existing for the 2M & 5E so you wouldn't have to adjust the arm height to keep the arm perfectly horizontal when playing a record (this VTA adjustment is not available on the Debut tonearm). You will have to buy the complete 2M cartridge & stylus the first time.
    The manual states the Genie came with a "stylus pressure gauge". So the tracking weight would be set using this seesaw balance rather than the video method (which is dependent on the weight being threaded)
     
  12. crazybeats

    crazybeats Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Bit of a disaster story guys. I ended up not having the funds until recently, today I got the cartridge. The shop refused to fit it and there's only a few stores in my town that sold it and they were one of them, the other was out of town. So he tells me how to do it over and over until I go and do it at home. I had no idea if the clips at the back of the turntable were gold or black. I found out the hard way by pulling the red one out of it's gold socket with just a little bit of wire visible. I then tried to fit the small bit of bare wire alongwith the black rubber bit into the gold socket again like the others and this time the bit of wire came off, i don't even know where it went as it's not on my table, I think it might have went inside the small black rubber part.


    So i fitted it all on and the records play fine but it's not the big leap I expected. The one store way out of town offered to fit it all and I should have listened and done that. Anyway the question I want to ask is this, if there is anything wrong ie, that red wire from the tonearm is broken, should I be getting sound? Now admittadly the first few records I put on are recent releases so most likely come from digital sources but they don't sound any different from the OM5e I had. One song I have on just now does sound a lot brighter but there's a lot of synths in it so I dunno. I just thought going from the OM5e to the 2M red cartridge would have been a big difference but with no one wanting to do it for me apart from that one store and me being left alone to do it I fear I've ruined something with this red wire or is this affecting the sound quality etc? There's no sibalance or skipping or any problems as far as I can tell. As I'm typing this more songs are playing and they do seem a bit cleaner than I remember. I just feel annoyed at myself right now but helpless, I just wish I knew someone that knew what they were doing and don't know why no one selling it here wanted to fit it for me,

    What do you guys think?
     
  13. I think we need to see some pictures to assess the damage, if there is any.
     
    OcdMan likes this.
  14. crazybeats

    crazybeats Forum Resident Thread Starter

    What kind of pictures? Of the cabling? A lot of the songs I've played are not very bass heavy, I made a mistake earlier about the 3e, it was the 3e I had. I had the 5e when I got the turntable, heard different stylus gave a different sound. The 5e was very bass heavy, one of my favourite songs I Touch Myself by the Divinyls being a good example. With the 3e a lot of that bass was lost and then I heard the 3e was a step backwards rather than forwards and the 2M red cartridge was supposed to be a big leap forward from that but the bass is not strong at all. I'm listening to a lot of older records from the 80's and they sound fantastic.
     
  15. Your question is, if there is anything wrong with the cables. So, yes, pictures of the way the cartridge is cabled would be helpful.
     
  16. OcdMan

    OcdMan Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    I'm sorry about the trouble you've been having. Unfortunately, the 2M Red isn't that much of an upgrade over the OM5e. I place them in the same "tier" of cartridges. The specs for both are very similar. The both use basically the same bonded elliptical stylus which is typical of lower priced cartridges. On the plus side, the 2M Red is still a small upgrade and you can put better styli on it, like the Blue, at some point down the road.
     
  17. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    the cart needs to burn in with use. it will get better w/more bass and less treble.
     
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