Thoughts on ABBA reissue? (40th anniversary, half speed mastered edition of Arrival) *

It is indeed...my apologies. I anxiously await your thoughts about it after you listen to it a couple times. How much you like it will likely depend on what others you have heard. You sure got a great price, and the packaging is superb. I probably would have kept mine at that price.

 

How does the HS mastering soUnd compared with the early Polar/Polydor cds ?

 

I owned the orginal Atlantic CD on release, and the remaster. Compared to either the vinyl box set or the new vinyl Abbey Road, the orginal just seemed pretty darn lifeless to me, but I always read that folks feel the originals are the go to versions, before they started futzing around with the mastering. I don't remember the newer remastered version, so I guess it didn't make much of an impression but no one here seems to like any of those. The two vinyl versions, which I would bet are on par with older Polar vinyl, sound as good as I think Arrival will ever sound, which is to say, "okay" compared to most of their catalogue. I think it's just a bit bright and brittle if you turn it up (when the girls sing together during a chorus it hurts my ears a bit, though on Dancing Queen it seems better, as if they compressed the voices as bit which likely helped). I used to own a recording studio and I know that the more effects you add, especially brightness and reverb, the harder it is not to lose control of the overall mix in the brightness department. They were doing some experiment with guitar sounds on this album and When I Kissed the Teacher has all the earmarks to me as sounding bright and thin because of that, though I DO like the effect and overall feel of the song, so I guess the trade off is worth it. There ARE technical reasons why the bulk of music is mixed the way it is...the more you go off the rance the more challenging it is to maintain a balance and pleasant overall sound, at least that is what I found back then.

I feel this is an album to enjoy because it's simply a fine album, not because it's sonic masterpiece. I've heard much worse out there in music land, but I just don't think it's up to par compared to all their other albums in the sound department. But I know a lot of folks here disagree, so obviously this is just my opinion. I'm pretty darn fussy, which isn't always a good thing, but when you get the right pressing it's worth it!

 

Believe it or not, I'm actually an ABBA newbie when it comes to albums. I'm finally interested in them enough to delve past the singles comps. I know Arrival is a kind of high-water mark for them as far as albums go, so I'm really approaching this Half-Speed Master with no preconceptions about how it should sound.

 

It's the 5-LP set right? Is there any difference in mastering between countries? No advantage to getting it from the Netherlands vs. the UK? UK is CBS... Germany and Netherlands are Polydor.

 

Hoffmanites,

I see there has been no discussion on this reissue that came out in 2016. It is 45rpm 2LP.

It sounds like an interesting releease, but is it any good? Do I need it?

Cheers,
Simon

 

Lots of Abba fans on here but nobody has taken a chance on this remaster?

 

Someone in the "The Continuing AAA Vinyl Thread" mentioned that this digitally-sourced LP has channel imbalance.

 

My thoughts?

Original Atlantic pressings sounds good to me and I hope they're still easy to find in the used bins.

 

Bingo...I have all the Abbey Road remasters to date and have a pre-order in for Voulez-Vouz. I am a huge fan so I “have” to buy them! But should you buy them based on the sound quality? Sorry...the answer imo is no. Surprised? I was. And why did I stumble on this thread? I never saw this or I would have piped in (I did on another ABBA thread). I am sitting here blown away at a first pressing I just picked up of Super Trouper, a standard issue Atlantic pressing. Mint, and man the mastering is blowing me away. This would be one of those White Hot Stampers for $600 Tom Port at Better Records would sell and if you love the album, it just might be worth it. I paid $4.99 but I probably have spent $250 trying to find one this good! I’m on a tear to buy promo copies or first pressings of all their albums after hearing this. I just found a promo copy, ironically, of Voulez-Vous on ebay.

Why did I bring this up? Because this is how I thought the Abbey Roads would sound! I thought they obviously would be mastered using THE masters. I think they used digital masters. What am I comparing them to? I have the what is now the insanely priced silver vinyl Polar box set and after owning a lot of other pressings, those were the best I had ever heard them sound, and it sure sounds like they used the masters. I thought I was done. But now that I’m hearing this copy of Super Trouper, I’m not so sure.

Arrival: never going to sound great. I had high hopes for this as it always sounds like the vinyl was pressed using pretty high generation masters, but it is because of the way it was recorded. Not a terrible sounding album, but imo the worst of the catalogue, including their debut. The half speed doesn’t sound better or worse than the Polar copy in my box set. That’s perhaps an off handed compliment. Beautiful packaging, by the way. Worth buying if you don’t already have a good copy, but if you are happy with what you have and don’t want to spend $40 unnecessarily, you can feel good passing.

The Album: decent but again, doesn’t improve on the Polar copy. But it’s a harder album to find a clean copy of, and it certainly sounds fine and is also beautifully packaged, so I can recommend it but on both of these, just don’t expect a big jump in sq. They just aren’t. And I am unconvinced the 45rpm is of much benefit at all. I have a number of Mobile Fidelities at 45, and our host’s Rumours which I bought in both versions so I could do a shootout and put that issue to bed once and for all. I could discern no difference (though some claim better bass response, enough people that there probably is merit there but I’m getting plenty so it isn’t an issue to me) and I have a pretty high end vinyl rig. I only play the 33 now. I hate flipping over every ten minutes, and on that album it really messes up the flow. So, don’t expect a big difference due to that factor...I would prefer they stuck to 33. And if it did sound better, I would be fine with flipping so that isn’t coloring my opinion.

So, as an avid ABBA vinyl collector, of course I will continue buying them and who knows, maybe one of these will pop out and sound like a big leap forward but really, all and all I think the ABBA catalogue was treated pretty well so I just don’t know how much more we can expect them to squeeze out of those tapes, and unfortunately my ears tell me they probably are not using THE tapes to master these. The only reason this copy of Super Trouper is better is it is clearly an early pressing using a fresh stamper, and a very low generation master tape was clearly was used. I know this album like the back of my hand and I’m blown away at the difference. I would spend time finding promos or first pressings if what you truly want is simply the best possible sound. The half speeds will only get you 3/4 of the way there if all their albums sound this good with the right pressing. This experience has been quite an eye opener. I will list the matrix info below and if anyone has info on this pressing I would love to hear about it!

Side 1: 804593A C2 24937
Side 2: 804594A C4 24937

 

I have the album on CD (which sounds amazing), so I can't speak to what it sounds like on vinyl.

 

Huge difference between the two formats, it’s just hard to get there on vinyl but if you do, the difference is obvious. I have all their cds and none come close to the best vinyl copies. But you have to spend a lot to get it all together to get that magic sound, and then you have to find the right pressings. CDs are just a lot easier!

 

Yeah, I've always heard that vinyl has the best sound quality. I just don't have a record player right now, so I wouldn't have anything to play vinyl on. Plus, I like CDs because I can transport the music onto my music library on my computer and listen to them from there.

 

Thanks for the responses, this one is now scratched off the WTB list. What a missed opportnity!

Jcr - I appreciate your detailed and thoughtful reply. It looks like I am on the first pressings hunt like I have been on many other artists that matter to me. I own this box set, can I do better with first pressings?

ABBA - The Best Of ABBA

Cheers all

 

Congrats! That box set is about as good as it’s gonna get, as far as most of their best songs, plus it’s a fun sequence imo. IMO the songs sound better than I’ve heard them anywhere else, except for Fernando where they clearly had a higher generation master, where all the other tracks sound like they were mastered from a tape very close to the original. That box was very clearly put together with loving care. The fact that it’s on the Reader’s Digest label saved all of us here a ton of money (I bet ten have been sold just to us). I would bet it would be going for hundreds of dollars (and I would pay it) if it was on Polydor, Polar or Atlantic. Everything is top of the line and anyone that doesn’t have one, get a copy before it gets impossible to find, or stupid expensive. It is also pressed on a Quiex type of high quality vinyl, and it’s see through. Everyone that has got one and discussed it here says their copies were mint, as was mine. The sleeves are lovely too. Just a great box...buy one if you don’t have it guys! A lot of us have recommended this around here. I think you can still get them for under $100, which is crazy cheap for all the tracks you get! It is an import, so you might have to buy from eBay. I’m glad you got one...did you get it after reading about it here? That’s how I found out about it; I’ve had mine for about two years.

So...I got my half speed mastered 45rpm Abbey Road copy of Voulez Vous and played it. So, on this one they got it right! It is definitely my best copy, and by coincidence I had bought a promo copy that arrive just a couple days before this one (all my promos sound better than my silver box set, which was previously my go to copies of all their albums...Super Trouper is beyond stunning)! While the promo is nice, the Abbey Road is better. So, this is one I highly recommend where all the others they are more of a push if you have a top copy already. Everything is just a bit cleaner and sparkly, where I’m not absolutely positive they had the best possible tapes for the other releases to date. Just know you will have to get up every two songs (three on one side) to flip the dang thing over, so I probably won’t play the others much but Voulez Vous, I will!

 

Thanks for your review of the Voluez Vous 45 remaster. Would you say it sounds better than the Voluez tracks on the Readers Digest box?

 

Sounds like a great excuse for a quick shootout. I’ll get back to you but if I had to guess, I would say yes because it beats my promo and my silver box set version. Enough better to pay $40? Will check. Just speaking from a vinyl prospective, I would say they sure seemed to make sure everything leaving the pressing plants were going to sound decent. I haven’t ever heard a pressing that sounded as bad as a lot of pressings of other artists.

 

I just did a comparison between the Readers Digest and the new Abbey Road 1/2 speed. The Readers Digest is very good. But when doing a comparison it’s almost unfair. If there is any criticism to put towards the Digest copy it’s that vinyl purists probably would have preferred one less track per side. The grooves are pretty close together to accommodate seven songs per side. Some of their earlier songs are on the shorter side (which may explain the odd but fun sequencing where older and newer cuts are spread across all the sides rather than in sequential order). I think now it was to keep each side as short as possible. They did a superb job making it sound really good despite this challenge. I still maintain it’s an outstanding way to obtain most of their best songs in one place with excellent sound.

The half speed is 45rpm and there are only 2-3 songs per side, and they cut it using the masters so it speaks to how good the Digest is that it stood up reasonably well against it. But yes, the half speed is much better at sound stage imaging, not even close in that regard but how that will work out for you will depend on how good your rig is. I doubt an average set up will pick up the difference. Vocals were only a bit better, but everything did have a bit more gloss and sheen, something that I thought would have also been better on both The Album and Arrival but those two don’t seem to be much of an improvement at all over good regular copies. There is a bit better reverb trail on the half speed. You are definitely hearing just a bit more elements on the half speed. The bass is definitely cleaner and more pronounced.

Here’s the thing, however. Had I not had the two available to play against each other, I would not have known. And most of these improvements are not going to be obvious unless you have a pretty nice set up. If I was still using my Technics 1200mg with my AT 150 cartridge and a $500 Tubebox pre, I’m not sure I would have heard much difference, especially with the soundstaging. Everything sounded pretty darn okay. But upgrading to a VPI Prime, a Manley tube preamp and a Zephyr Star cart from Soundsmith, well yes, I would sure hope real differences in pressings would come fourth. So, I’ve been on both sides and I’ve learned more or less what you can and can’t really hear on a decent middle set up and something higher end. Which is why I say most of the improvements will not be very obvious had I used my other set up, which I still have in another room.

My recommendation is if you have a set up that is pretty sensitive and a cartridge that is strong on the qualities where I heard improvement, then definitely pick up the half speed. Pass on Arrival no matter what you have. It’s hampered by not being recorded very well, which is the only album in their cannon I feel that way about. So, kinda hard to “fix” it with any kind of hocus pokus mastering. If it isn’t there, they can’t make the misding elements magically appear. If you have a high end set up, The Album has some of those same upgrades (though I did not perceive any more musical elements like I did on Voulez Vous) but slight improvements in the other areas I discussed. Still, if you have a nice copy of The Album you can probably pass. Hope I didn’t geek out too much, but these are the comments I love to read about when others describe differences in mastering, so I like to hold up my end as well as I’ve been helped tremendously by these kind of threads.

 

That was an incredible review, thank you!!! And it sounds like you have a very nice setup to listen on.

I only wish I had joined this site earlier, your review answered all of my questions and then some. I'm very excited to hear all of this as this is my favorite ABBA album. I know Voluez Vous is despised by some fans for the disco elements, but the songwriting is superb in my opinion. I'm especially psyched to hear "Angel Eyes", which is one of their symphonic masterpieces in my humble opinion. I have a decent setup (AT-LP5 player, VMN40L stylus, Marantz SR6009 receiver), so I'm sure it will be worth purchasing this reissue. I had purchased a Back to Black 180 reissue which was atrocious, I'm just happy I was able to Ebay it quickly.

Just watched the music video for "Does Your Mother Know" to get the excitement going. It's soooo good.

 

That Back To Black series is incredibly hit and miss. I have bought some truly terrible albums and the some terrific one’s. Ironic as we’re talking about the Abbey Road reissues, but I had the Amy Winehouse album from the Back To Black series and it was okay. Overseas they issued an Abbey Road half speed and I got it recently and it is so much better. But I’ve also picked up a few from Back To Black that are quite good. I agree....the ABBA from that series was nothing to jump for joy about!

I understand some people’s sentiments regarding Voulez Vous. It was easily the least played of all their albums in my collection, but over the years I’ve come to actually love it. The disco slant doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, Does You Mother Know was at best a novelty song to me, kind of in the middle in the way of favorite tracks. If I had to make a top ten list, it would probably land in there now. Agree on Angel Eyes...I actually picked that to do the shootout with but after I was done with the other track it was getting late, and I assumed I would hear the same qualities anyway. I’ll try and listen to it today though.

Your Reader’s Digest is still going to be the best way to easily throw something on the table and get overall great sound, and a way to hear everything across the board. But if they keep up the quality going forward on the Abbey Road’s, I may not be able to keep making the claim that those are the best way to hear the hits if you want pure sound quality. But for now, I really couldn’t tell people not to go that route because of one album that does sound superior. Let us know what you think after you get a copy of the half speed Voulez Vous. I would love to hear Super Trooper get this treatment...I have no doubt we’ll see that. I have a promo copy I just got and wow, it’s amazing! And it’s just an Atlantic standard issue, but it is a very early pressing for radio use. It’s crazy good compared to other copies, and the one a half speed will have to beat. That will be challenging. I feel bad for people that are listening to ABBA digitally. I listen to that Super Trooper promo copy, and this new Voulez Vous, and CD’s just can’t begin to reproduce the sound we’re getting on these good pressings.

 

This was posted on another/similar forum -- but I'd really love to hear a snippet of the 45RPM 1/2 speed mastered Voulez-Vous. I have provided some basis of comparison:
Song 'As Good As New' -- first song on album, the snippet starts at 100seconds, for 45seconds at full volume with a 2 second fade.)

1) Old Vinyl (vinyl in the filename)
2) Polar CD release (Polar in the filename)
3) My own decoded (V0.9.4XXX in the filename)

Each of these versions sounds different from each other. I'd love to hear what they did with the 45rpm version, but I am currently of limited means (moving, still not able to reliably work, etc.) So -- I am just curious, and wondering what 'really good' mastering and good pressing means. Sometimes it is a 'good thing' (MFSL is sometimes a good remaster), and then there are others not-so-good.

Here is the location of some of my snippets. If the person who might do the snippet doesn't have the ability to present it -- let me know, we can arrange an email, and then I can upload it for the comparison.
One more note: the MP3 encoding and the online mp3 decoder DOES lose some detail/accuracy. The flac examples are more clean, but the mp3 DOES show differences between the versions.

Dropbox - Hoffman demos - Simplify your life

John

 

Hey -- sorry, I was pointed to from the Voulez-Vous discussion, and didn't click in my mind that I should come up with some Arrival examples, so I uploaded 'vinyl', 'PolarCD', and 'DHNRDS decoded' snippets of 'Thats Me' and 'Dancing Queen'.

Normal versions of 'Arrival' seem to be a little smeary sounding -- I tried to find out the cause, will probably do a little more research (I probably have 5-6 versions of the album in my archives.) However, the locally decoded versions are from DolbyA source (I have two for Dancing Queen), and they do sound similar. But, my 'properly mastered' versions sound more different than my locally processed versions than usual.

It might be especially interesting to hear a snippet from the half speed Arrival album. The examples are in the same place as before.
(The Arrival snippets start at zero seconds and last for about 45 seconds.)

Dropbox - Hoffman demos - Simplify your life

John

 

Nothing from Arrival sounds better than what I would say is competent. Pretty thin recording and unusual for ABBA. The Half Speed doesn’t improve, for me, on a thing. They can’t put something in that isn’t there in the first place. I had heard there were some board issues, plus Michael was doing some experimenting. Probably wasn’t a good idea in hindsight (though the guitar work was pretty cool) but being that imo it was his only hiccup I give him a huge pass as the rest of the catalogue, before and after Arrival, was very well done imo. They would need to go back and really mess with the EQing, and I don’t think most of us would want them to go there.

 

The EMI Denmark pressing is still a great listening experience for the "Arrival" album. I love it !!!

 

I agree with your opinion, but I try to avoid being critical other than in my technical world. I have all of the normal ABBA albums in DolbyA form (including the Gold/More Gold) and keep trying to hear 'quality' on Arrival (and others.) There are other serious technical problems -- for example -- one of my decoding frustrations, I keep on trying to straighten up the chorus on 'Livingstone' (Waterloo album.) I cannot figure out what they did -- it ALMOST sounds like badly decoded DolbyA (all garbled.) There are some wonderful gems in the ABBA music, and then there are travesties. Two windmills that I tilt at are: SuperTrouper (1st cut on the Supertrouper album) and the absolute worst in my posession: Dreamworld. If I can ever clean-up Dreamworld, then my lifes purpose will be attained . (Just kidding.) SuperTrouper is almost a success now.

Dreamworld APPEARS to be encoded 3 times without decoding, but I can only get plausible results with 2 passes. Supertrouper has a smooth garble/muffle in the background chorus and very disrupting IMD at the beginning -- I have recently been able to stabilize the gain control to be able to hear some vocal sound in it.

I am showing two snippets from SuperTrouper -- from the Polar CD and my own version (it really does show LOTS more detail -- fairly cleanly.) The examples start with 'st', and then the last of the name is the time range. DolbyA for the Polar version, and something starting wtih 'V' for my version.

This really might show the first steps of polishing some diamonds in the rough. Best results are coming from Voulez Vous, but even the ABBA (self named) album comes through pretty good. The English version of 'Waterloo' is also more clean/distinct in my testing.
For fun -- give these a listen of these 'SuperTrouper' song examples:

Dropbox - SuperTrouper-Hoffman - Simplify your life

John