Thoughts on Harbeth P3ESR as an upgrade?

Hi,
I posted on an older thread but wasn't getting any feedback, so here I am.
I have a chance to trade in (plus cash) my roughly three-month old B&W CM1's for a pair of new Harbeth P3ESR's, and I'm wondering who has them (or has had them) and what were your thoughts on them?
I listen to mainly jazz, classical, rock, folk, with electronic, pop, post-punk and dub thrown in. (Mostly jazz).
And while I really love the CM1's, I'm thinking this might be a smart move to go for the Harbeth's.
This is a two-channel system, strictly vinyl (RP6/Exact-2/Brio-R/to-be-decided dedicated phono stage).
What say you hifi gurus?

 

Don't walk. Run to your nearest hifi dealer. They are smokin' hawt!

 

I've read good things, but haven't heard them myself yet. Really interested to see how they stack up to the CM1's in my little system. You own a pair?

 

I have never heard either speaker, but I wonder whether you've seen the frequency-response curves that Canada's NRC took of the CM1s, which you are accustomed to. You'll notice a rather large suckout in the brightness region (roughly 2 kHz to 5 kHz) both on and off axis. I'm not an expert, and I certainly know measurements aren't everything, but I believe it would be reasonable to expect that the Harbeth speakers would be significantly flatter in that region, giving a brighter perspective to the music. I would expect things like violins and trumpets to be noticeably brighter with the Harbeths than with the B&Ws. If that sounds appealing to you, you may very well like the Harbeths better than the B&Ws. Given the overly bright presentation of violins on many classical recordings, I would really like to hear the B&Ws. Again, I emphasize that these are only conclusions drawn from measurements and not from actual listening experience.

Measurements:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/bw_cm1/

 

The B&W's really shine (IMHO) with jazz and classical in my setup... I'm just looking for a little more magic.

 

Do you have a dealer where you can audition these? There is a dealer in my home city who carry both and are pretty good about letting you do some comparative auditioning. I've done that with amps and speakers several times in the past. In fact, I could go and listen to both the CM1s and the Harbeths in the next couple of days, but I'm afraid that I'd be walking out with a new pair of speakers and my wife would seriously not like that!

I would suspect that Harbeths would be quite a step up, but I haven't personally compared them.

 

Hey, I'm in Vancouver and the only place I know that carries both is Soundhounds in Victoria. I talked to Don there today about demoing both and he's all for it – great crew there!
I think a guy in Surrey who has a specialized sound room in his basement (or garage?) carries Harbeth too, (among several other high-end brands), but I have not had a chance to contact him yet as he's appointment only. You know anyone in Vancouver who carries Graham Slee or Musical Surroundings by chance?
Cheers,
–R

 

Haven't directly compared but I was way underwhelmed by most of the B&W gear I've heard (including the CM1).

Almost the entire Harbeth line has blown my mind. They so good...and gorgeous.

 

I have always felt like B&W was engineering for a certain sound that has never appealed to me. The Harbeth speakers I have heard have sounded very relaxed and open but seemed to lack bass control, which I could easily attribute to the amplification. I would love to hear more Harbeth speakers.

 

I came to the CM1's after doing listening sessions and head-to-head comparisons with PSB Imagine B's, Focal 806V's, Totem Rainmaker's, and Sonus Faber Venere 1.5's.
To my ear, the B&W's did the best job of handling EVERYTHING I threw at them, especially dense classical, electronic and jazz. The Faber's were gorgeous and had an edge with guitars, woodwinds and strings, but lacked the ability to really separate instruments in dense musical passages. I found the Focal's too bright and the PSB's flat and not engaging at all. The Totem's were too clinical. Again just IMO, to my ears, with my music. That being said, I'm still looking for something more... and it seems like people are pretty universal in their praise for Harbeth's.

 

I'm afraid that I don't know anyone selling Graham Slee or Musical Surroundings, but I can tell you that Soundhounds is a fantastic shop with a great crew. It might be worth a day trip - they are the opposite of the snooty high-end shop, with a vibe more like a funky used record store. They are quite happy to let you audition gear. Actually, they are quite happy to have customers drop in, hang around and listen to tunes - I've been avoiding the place because my pocketbook can't handle a visit right now, and I find it almost impossible to drop in without buying something!

 

Yes, Soundhounds is amazing. I've been buying from them for a few years when I can. I've never been in a more welcoming store. The first time I went there I ended up staying for more than three hours, listened to a dozen SACD's in the front lounge/listening area, had lunch and coffee and left feeling profoundly relaxed. Been going back whenever I'm in Victoria since! And I agree to that I can't go there without dropping serious coin every time because they always have exactly what I've wanted or been looking for! I'm heading over in a couple weeks to demo the Harbeth's and really looking forward to it.
Cheers,
–R

 

Don't know that B&W speaker but I can speak to the P3ESR as an excellent and very enjoyable speaker that gives up little for its size. It can handle most music needs easily, unless you crave tons of bass for that dub. They have magic going on in the midrange. I think of them as an heirloom product, once you own a pair you'll likely keep them no matter what. How much better they are than the B&Ws only you can decide by listening but I would wager they will give good value to your ears even as you upgrade other components in your rig, which is inevitable IF the right deal came by me, I'd buy a pair just to have them somewhere in my house, true gems.

 

If you're over here on the 17th, come by the local DIY "fest" if you have time. It would be a real "eye opener" for you, especially where speakers are concerned. PM me for details if you're interested.

jeff

 

Hey Patrick!
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.
Yes, from what I've read and from what the Harbeth dealer in Victoria tells me (he carries B&W too) I should expect quite an improvement in sound.
I don't crave bass, for dub or otherwise, just realism. More than anything as I travel down this audiophile path I'm realizing what's important to me for sound.
Quality. The more lifelike the reproduction, the more natural and organic the sound, the more truth in the music – the happier I am.
It doesn't hurt that I've been ordering way too many Speakers Corner, Impex, AcousTECH and ORG pressings – these remasters/recordings very quickly reveal any limitations that your system has.
And as great as my B&W's sound to me, I'm noticing a lack of midrange magic more than anything: which is where I'm hoping the Harbeth's will come in.
I've only heard one Harbeth speaker previously (at the same dealer's) two years ago, the M 40.1, and needless to say I was FLOORED by the sound. I ended up listening to about a dozen SACD/CD's over three hours with the shop's owner and having lunch there (Soundhounds in Victoria is an amazing hifi shop).
So, it seems Harbeth loyalty runs strong, and I must say I am absolutely looking forward to demoing a pair and hopefully taking them home.

 

I've haven't had very good experiences with B&W's. Not that they are a bad speaker or anything, but the sound of the 2 smaller models I auditioned some time ago seemed 'enhanced'... for lack of a better description. I've listened to and compared the P3's a number of times to other small two-ways (KEF, etc). Extremely natural and neutral sounding. Emphasis on natural. Some time ago I had a chance to listen extensively to their forebear Rogers LS3's and was floored. The only pair of speakers I've ever heard that literally 'disappeared' leaving just a sweet musical image in the room.

 

Thanks for that info Raunchnroll, I appreciate your take on the sound. I'm really looking forward to demoing those Harbeth's!

 

Those Harbeths have such a great reputation. You should at least give them a good listen

 

Enjoy. But remember to try them with a very high quality solid state amplifier. My Boulder 102 made the P3's freakishly amazing. Sound Anchors made some terrific stands for them.

 

Soundhounds carry Simaudio, Arcam and Classé to name a few I can demo the Harbeth's with. I have a Brio-R presently, but am considering a Red Wine Audio Signature 16 or a Nait 5Si once i decide on a phono stage.

 

Anyone using the Red Wine Audio Signature 16 or 15, or any other Red Wine amp (or tube amp) with Harbeth's that could comment on their synergy?

 

The Brio/P3ESR combo is what sold me on the Harbeth. So easy to drive.

 

Hey Radiotron, thanks for the response.
So you're running this combo happily?

 

I've run that combination, it's very good.

 

That's the set-up the dealer had.

I use a Line Magnetic LM211IA with my P3ESR. Love it.