Thrash metal all purpose thread (love AND hate)

I'm talking about these guys who say only The first album is good and the rest sucks. A good example of this nonsense is Metallica. There are idiots (more like cockroaches) who say nothing after 'Kill 'em All' is worth someone's time.

 

I certainly do not share their opinion, but calling them idiots and cockroaches?

Seriously, someone, ANYONE, say something if you don't think this is okay.

 

They most certainly are. They really don't appreciate music for what it is. Or appreciate music, period. They should find another hobby really, because they really don't like music!

 

They don't agree with you=they don't like music? Yeah, I really see your point there. I'm almost converted.

 

No, because they only dislike more than they like. I imagine they only have 10 albums in their collection. To each is own, but that's rather silly.

 

Sorry, dude, this is total b.s. If someone doesn't like more than 50% of total output of popular music at any given moment, they are not true fans of music? At the risk of being reported, that is some stupid ****.

 

Aleksander, I think you are taking this personally and missing the point. I also share Dave's response, as you know, and I concede that I should just let it go. I recognize that. But I still take issue with the mindset that, for example, "Metallica ceased to exist after 1983" or "1988". It's a cliche, a knee-jerk reaction. I wrote about this earlier and referenced Chuck Schuldiner who said "labels suck", because you end up being pigeon holed. I think it is important, particularly to the musicians. I have heard first hand that a few, some, a lot, I don't know, but at least some feel very limited and confined by the mindset of many metal fans. Ultimately, a death metal band, or just a metal band, is in a genre that automatically paints oneself into a corner. Metal tends to have almost a built-in fanbase, but that comes at a price. I've heard death metal musicians lament that they couldn't possibly explore other musical ideas, because a death warrant would be issued against them, because fans would feel "betrayed". My sympathies honestly lie with Metallica: people think they can dictate how Metallica should be/sound/look? @#$ you, we're going to cut our hair and play Sabbath-y southern rock. Looked at in a certain way, that is very metal.

 

I don't think Metallica was no good after 1988. I listen to other genres as well, not just metal.

See how pathetic it is that I have to specifically write that and prove something (what exactly?) to you and everyone else, just because I have a metal avatar and because I started two metal threads? And how stupid it is that anyone would have to do that, on this board, or any other.

Lots of bad faith on your and everyone else's part. THAT's prejudice. It's ironic that you, Detuned, motorcitydave, Tangledupinblue and HumanMachinery are always so quick to point out how stupid and bigoted metalheads are, yet the most offensive and most prejudiced posts were made by you guys. But there's 5 of you now, so... victory by numbers, I guess. Congrats, and I hope all of you feel even more intelligent and sophisticated now.

I'm done with this failure of a thread, and I regret ever starting it. I knew people would start ****ting on metal sooner or later, which is why I immediately said that hate is allowed. And I thought it would come right away, but it seems like it took a dozen pages or so. I just didn't think it would come from people who DO enjoy some metal.

So, as the thread title says, hate is welcome. **** away. I'll be at the Judas Priest album-by-album thread, started by a genuinely open-minded forum member "phoenixhwy1982", a person who has no problem simultaneously being a huge fan of both Todd Rundgren and Judas Priest, yet doesn't feel the need to shove his varied tastes and open-mindedness down everyone's throat every time he posts.

So long.

 

Oh no. Guys, is there any REASONABLE reason to turn a SH.TV-style (if such a thingy exists) discussion into a 1,000,000,000'th clone of Blabbermouth's "Geoff Tate's vest vs. David Vincent's sunglasses" socio[patho]logical study? Terminator was mostly a metal guy, but even he was open to dialog, especially after reload (dubious pun 100% intended).

 

This has gotten blown WAY out of proportion. If I didn't enjoy metal I never would have participated in this thread in the first place. I never attacked anyone personally (nor has anybody else for that matter) and even apologized when my comments were misconstrued in that way.

If someone had jumped in here and said "metal sucks, anyone who listens to it are idiots" then I could see that being considered offensive, but that didn't happen.

A few of us mentioned how in some cases metalheads can be a tad insular in their thoughts and for that we are accused of writing bigoted, offensive and prejudiced posts? I'm not seeing that. I also don't believe we've tried to shove our "varied tastes and open-mindedness" down anyone's throats. You asked a question about whether we listened to various styles of music because we feel pressured to be accepted by "normals", I simply replied to that explaining that I've always loved various kinds of music, there was no animosity to that I was just stating my personal experience.

I think those of us in this thread have more things in common than not...can't we all just take a step back and continue the discussion of the music?

 

Wow, we must be listening to very different stuff. There are plenty of major keys, positive emotions and constructive subject matters in metal, as much as there is the opposite, often within the same band.

As an aside, I find it strange to read someone saying metal is not as varied as rock, since for me metal has always been part of rock. But that's just me.

 

Sorry, everyone. I'm not sure why I got so worked up about everything yesterday. I still think some things that were said are less than tactful and accurate, but so were the things I said. I've cleared my head a bit today.

Well, I guess you guys have your views, and I have mine, and we're never going to see eye to eye, but there's no doubt I overreacted.

I suppose we can.

 

So, these guys are sounding pretty good to me:

 

Well, it seems that I've inadvertently dropped a bomb on this thread, still not sure how it worked out like that. God knows what would have happened if I'd actually said something negative (and this on a thread where the OP actually said even less than positive comments were welcomed and was patting himself on the back for how well the thread was going)!

OK, metal isn't as varied as rock that isn't metal - better now?

Right, although admittedly I can't say I've listened to anything like as much metal as other regulars on this thread, I think I've listened to enough over a fairly broad spectrum of sub-genres and eras to form an accurate judgement about the genre - might as well list what I've heard here:

Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath, Paranoid, Master of Reality
Judas Priest - Sad Wings of Destiny
Rainbow - Rising, Long Live Rock 'n' Roll
Motorhead - Overkill
Iron Maiden - Iron Maiden, The Number of the Beast, Powerslave, Live after Death, Seventh Son of the Seventh Son, Brave New World, Rock in Rio
Metallica - Kill 'Em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, ...And Justice for All, Metallica, Death Magnetic
Dio - Holy Diver
Mercyful Fate - Melissa
Slayer - Reign in Blood, South of Heaven (a few tracks)
Megadeth - Rust in Peace
Sepultura - Beneath the Remains
Death - Human, Individual Thought Patterns, Symbolic, The Sound of Perseverance
Atheist - Unquestionable Presence
Neurosis - Through Silver in Blood (song)
Dissection - Storm of the Light's Bane
Opeth - Blackwater Park
Tool - Stinkfist (song)
Tool - Lateralus
Queens of the Stone Age (if they count as metal) - Songs for the Deaf
Electric Wizard - Dopethrone
Immolation - Close to a World Below
Burst - Lazarus Bird
Dream Theater - The Best of Times (song)

Now the only things I didn't like from that list at all were the Electric Wizard and Dream Theater, and perhaps understandably I've felt no urge to check out the rest of their output. But pretty much all the music I've heard from the above is as I summed up in my earlier post: ie music that's "mainly dark, bass heavy, loud, hard-hitting and explores predominantly negative emotions and subject matter (like anger, nihilism, tragedy, doom, evil, wars, depression etc)". Iron Maiden is the one that comes closest to the exception to the rule, with a number of brighter and more positive moments, musically if not necessarily lyrically (The Number of the Beast, Run to the Hills, Can I Play With Madness (although ironically I regard that as the weakest track of Seventh Son of a Seventh Son), the ray of light endings of The Rime of the Ancient Mariner and The Clairvoyant) but even there they form a very small percentage of their output. The only similar parallel I can think of in Metallica comes during the more consoling major key part of the slower section of One - aside from that, you're lucky if you can find any really positive or cheerful moments in the rest of the bands I listed. I actually did a google search on happy metal songs a couple of years ago, and in a thread I came across, most agreed that exploring positive and uplifting emotions and topics by and large is not what metal is about - prejudice and narrow-mindedness doesn't come into it. Not that there's anything from with that, mind; but music that purposedly eschews at least half a gamut of emotion, stays predominantly in the lower registers, and concentrates on harsh and heavy rather than gentle and seductive timbres, cannot be anything but restrictive.

And it's pretty ironic that were it not for the fact that I accepted a while ago that metal isn't as varied as other genres, and if you listen to a metal album even with Iron Maiden you're not going to get a diverse listening experience on the level of, say, the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, Stevie Wonder, Radiohead etc. that I wouldn't have enjoyed those Maiden albums anything like as I did. So who's in the right/wrong here?

Seriously, if someone could show me that a happy, brightly coloured metal album with rich arrangements and jazzy chord changes exists, I'd be happy to be proved wrong!

 

Without thinking too much about it - any Dream Theater album. Sure, they're not all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, but neither is most rock, hip-hop, soul, jazz, or classical. However, they are on the whole not dark and morbid, and their arrangements are nothing if not rich. It's just that, as you said, you don't like them. There is plenty of metal that doesn't fit your stereotypes, you just don't seem to like it. There's a whole world to explore there... Conception, Symphony X, Ark, most of Devin Townsend's projects except for the deliberately violent SYL... all it takes is an open mind (ironically enough).

You can start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aghora_(album)

 

Some King's X might fall into that category of what Tangledupinblue is asking for.

 

Really, most of what is called progressive metal (that obviously isn't progressive thrash, death...). Good call.

 

I've seen quite a few of those two's albums high up on the RYM charts, so I'll check those out - thanks. Also, I'll probably enjoy some Dream Theater more than that song suggested, which comes late during their commercial (but not necessarily artistic) peak of their career, but I've not read very many favourable opinions on them in general on both this and the RYM general board - though it seems many enjoy their 1990s stuff, notably Images & Words, so probably the earlier the better for them.

 

You should also check out some other Opeth records aside from Blackwater Park. Still Life, Deliverance/Damnation, Ghost Reveries, Heritage, etc. If you're looking for a group that can cover a lot of stylistic ground on a single album they are a good choice. Plus Mikael likes to write in major chords, they don't sound "happy" the way he uses them generally, but it does extend the palette.

Black Sabbath's "Heaven & Hell" is conspicuously missing from the list you posted, that is a classic and should be in any heavy rock collection.

On the "jazzy chord progression" front you should probably check out the following Voivod albums, it's more like jazzy via Robert Fripp but quite interesting and different from the norm; Dimension Hatross, Nothingface, Angel Rat and The Outer Limits.

 

Cynic Focus

 

Yes, please do that. Especially if you can get into prog rock, you're apt to find something to like in those Voivod albums.

And though it's not really what you asked for, I just spun "Elements" by Atheist, a technical metal band who seemed to like to venture into jazzy bits at times. In fact, this album features a short track that is really just a jazz jam session. Unfortunately whereas the guys had some musical chops, they did were not meant to play jazz, so what they end up with - likely their attempt to impress their listeners - is actually something of a mess.

 

Also a couple of posters asked earlier for opinions on Sadus and Mordred. Unfortunately I've never heard Sadus and it has been 20 years since I've heard anything by Mordred.

 

Of course, it must be said that on the first two albums, Atheist pulled off a very successful melding of death metal and fusion elements. I've listed their debut Piece of Time among my top 10 albums in the death metal thread, but I think it is also pertinent to this discussion as it is the type of death metal that still has a lot of thrash metal in it. But, yes, Elements was a bit of a mess.

Sadus was at the same time very brutal and very technical, at least on the first album. I would recommend their albums, especially the three after the debut, to fans of Atheist and Cynic, or even Watchtower. I do believe that fans of Death know that Steve DiGorgio played bass in Sadus, so they are also advised to check the band out. Although, I would avoid their reunion album Out for Blood, as it contains an extremely simplified version of the old Sadus style.

 

Just thought about this thread when I pondered this question: where do you get the bulk of your thrash metal albums/listening from? Is it all from Amazon and the like, or for those who still enjoy the physical shopping experience, are you lucky enough to live near stores that sell a sizable amount of good thrash? (The big HMV in Oxford Street, London has quite a decent metal section, but I haven't been in there for a while). Apart from Metallica, which seems to be far the most represented act in metal in general, never mind thrash, the libraries I've been to in the south of England are useless for stocking any kind of metal, so to avoid blind-buying it has to be Spotify or YouTube, which runs down my Broadband if done excessively. I wonder why that is the case BTW - similar to hip hop and their lack of, is it seen as too "unsuitable" in what is supposed to be a family-friendly environment? I can imagine being a metal fan can be an expensive hobby - especially if you live in a country that doesn't even have Spotify, like Serbia...

 

Believe it or not, the currently largest chain store in Serbia (music, books... the lot) holds a fairly good selection of metal. I sometimes can't believe what I find there, some pretty obscure stuff. And, of course, a lot of it is thrash metal. There are also two good stores (that I know of) with used CDs in Belgrade, in which I've spotted older albums by Exodus, Nuclear Assault, Annihilator, Overkill... I cannot always buy what I want, of course, CDs are overpriced here.

And, yes, I download. That is simply the reality here. But I also buy, probably much more than the majority of people of my age. But, for example, that Wrathchild America album that we've discussed in this thread? That I just cannot expect to see on the rafts here, and if I want to hear something like that, I download. To be frank, I have not been able to buy music for over a year now.