Time-aligned speakers and "sweet spot" inquiry …

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bhazen, Nov 25, 2014.

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  1. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    Fact!
     
  2. norman_frappe

    norman_frappe Forum Resident

    geez you would need the discipline of one of those zen monks to slow your heart rate down and keep yourself in position long enough to listen to an album.
     
    bhazen and Adam9 like this.
  3. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Yes the Kestels use a very simple 1st order xover along with time aligned drivers. They really do have an uncanny knack of sounding good no matter where you are. I'm not talking about precise imaging as you get in the sweet spot, but they can sound very natural almost anywhere in the room.
    Now the Thiels will beat them for imaging in the sweet spot. But the Thiels lose the magic if out of that spot. They still sound room-filling good, just not as natural as the Kestrels.
    The Kestrels come up on ebay fairly regularly and sell for $250 to $350. You should try a pair if they come up locally. The xover is super easy to get to if you want to play with it.
     
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  4. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Agree 100%.
     
  5. bhazen

    bhazen ANNOYING BEATLES FAN Thread Starter

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Thanks - but I live on the West Coast of America. :)
     
  6. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    Much, much easier! :shtiphat:
     
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  7. nesnith

    nesnith Forum Resident

    I just purchased a pair of Vandersteen 3 a few months ago and here are my observations.

    1. The speakers are very sweet-spot dependent. A slight shift on the horizontal plane away from the sweet spot (say, from middle of the couch to the right side of the couch) means one speaker overpowers the other. That is, you will hear more from one speaker than the other.

    2. When I move around the house, the shifting effect described above is not noticeable. The music is just there.

    3. If you have length in the room, it might help to set up the speakers in an isosceles triangle. That increases the distance from the speakers and might help diminish the shifting effect described in #1.
     
    bhazen likes this.
  8. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Guess I'm not the only one who thought our location was the UK.
     
  9. bhazen

    bhazen ANNOYING BEATLES FAN Thread Starter

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Will Vandersteens (or Meadowlarks) work up against the wall?
     
  10. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
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  11. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    They can get close for sure (I have no choice but to place them like this), but directly up against the wall is probably not a good idea.
     
    bhazen likes this.
  12. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    Buy some vintage Linn Isobarrics
    They proudly said they had no sweet spot
    'The musicians are in the room with you'
    ie its mono prat.
     
    bhazen likes this.
  13. Jack Flannery

    Jack Flannery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I was leaning on purchasing a pair of Kestrels. And then, they were gone. A bit of a bummer.
     
  14. DaveC113

    DaveC113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Front Range CO

    Imaging also has to do with the directivity of the speakers and the ratio of direct to reflected sound. I am playing with some large, 20" diameter waveguides that use a Le Cleac'h curve with single drivers. Without the waveguides the imaging is close to as good as it gets, it's a time-aligned point source... but with the waveguides the imaging is the best I've heard from any speaker at any price. The guides eliminate short 1st reflections and the result is spectacular, but it doesn't sound as good outside of the sweet spot. In another room there is not much difference with or without waveguides.
     
    Doug Sclar likes this.
  15. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    The original Kestrels are rear ported so probably best out from the wall a bit. The Kestrel IIs are front ported and are a whole lot better looking. Unfortunately, they don't have the same sound as the originals. Yes I owned both. Bought the IIs and sold them after a few months of listening and put the original Kestrels back in to compare; that was all she wrote.
     
    bhazen likes this.
  16. bhazen

    bhazen ANNOYING BEATLES FAN Thread Starter

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    I had Saras for awhile, smacked right up against the wall; I'd have them still, as they were perfect in just about every way that counts: groove and PRaT in spades, non-existent sweet spot (i.e. no need to sit anywhere near the middle of anything), and great tone, except for a tendency to 'shout' on certain material. Shoulda just violated protocol and gotten an equalizer!
     
  17. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    Check out the Decware ERRx to throw another radial into the mix, I've heard many great things about them. They are fairly inexpensive new, but if you can get a pair used you could save even more.
     
  18. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident

    Khyl,

    Well, what I am trying to say is that time alignment is almost always given some consideration in any reasonably mid to high end crossover and enclosure designs. One cannot really consider phase alignment without giving some consideration to time alignment.

    Drew
     
  19. jcmusic

    jcmusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Terrytown, La.
    I would have to agree with this fact, my setup is a lot like Doug describes here. I have horns that have been time/phase aligned using measurement equipment to verify the results, if I am not in the sweet spot there is a huge difference in the sound. I listen to music in the sweet spot when ever I am listening, that's the way I set it up and that's the way I like it!!! There are trade off's here, in the sweet spot it doesn't get any better; out of the sweet spot there is a noticable difference in the sound quality much more bass for example!!!
     
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