To record using Dolby or no Dolby NR?

Well, I finally did it. Once upon a time I use to have one of those cool Nakamichi cassette decks (RX 202) that actually had a drawer that would come out and flip the tape as part of the auto reverse function. It made great tapes but alas it was stolen from my house.

Recently, I purchased the RX 505 (the more expensive three head model) with the same fuctions. It arrived yesterday and sounds terrific and I ordered a bunch of TDK metal cassettes. I was thinking about recording some of my audiophile lps that I don't have on cd onto cassette (don't have a cd burner and don't really want one) so I can enjoy that great analog sound in the car.

I was just going to record direct and not use Dolby NR (B or C) when taping the lps. I don't mind a little hiss and frankly don't want to lose any of the music to some filtering.

Is this a mistake? There is something fun about tapes kinda like the enjoyment I get from listening to my lps over my cds. Any thoughts would be appreicated before my new recording studio starts the process.....

 

KLM,

Forget the noise reduction! On a high quality cassette deck - just not needed , IMO.

I have some wonderful sounding cassettes w/o NR.

Good Luck!

Bob

 

Metal tape and no Noise Reduction

Congratulations on your new cassette deck. This question came up once before and I posted my views.

When I was a student, I lived with friends who owned Nakamichis. I owned the turntable (Linn-Ittok-Grado Signature, hand-made hybrid preamp) and we made many tapes. We had a wide circle of friends with some nice records, and we made party tapes and tapes for the car from our records.

I would not use Dolby "C" ever. I tried it for the extra level of noise reduction, but it robs the music of life.

Most of the time we used Dolby "B" on TDK SA-X tape. These Naks were calibrated spot-on for SA-X by the best Nakamichi technician in Brisbane (John Gipps - a strange fellow, but top-class work).

However, the best recordings I could make on the tape decks we had were with metal tape (either Maxell or TDK) and no noise reduction. Metal tapes don't saturate as readily as ferric or chrome and have more headroom, so turn up the recording level - I found I could run at maybe +2db. The "hot" signal will mask any noise, and hiss will not be a problem.

These tapes had tremendous life and presence and just sounded fantastic.

Don't take my word for it - go and buy a nice metal tape and give it a shot. Just a few bucks investment and you will know for sure.

If you have a quality source you'll be able to push a very nice signal onto those tapes with your Nak. And you won't have to worry about correct alignment of the Dolby tracking signal.

Regards,
Geoff

 

I have a Nakamichi MR-1. It's the pro version of one of their consumer decks. Forgot which one. Amazing sound for a cassette. Hasn't been turned on in about six years though. I just recorded one of my SACDs to a TDK SA-X tape with and without Dolby B (Dolby C causes problems) Both sounded great. I had a preference for the Dolby version though. I know, I know, you hate me now, but here's my reason. I forgot how much tape compression cassettes add. I was actually amazed. Sounded like I had squeezed the tune with my SSL compressor. The recording WITH the Dolby B compansion relieved some of this compression. I'm sure your deck is properly aligned so you'll have no problems with pumping or high end loss.

Anybody ever use Dolby S?

 

Jamie,

I have Dolby S on my Sony ES deck. Definitely much better than Dolby B but, I prefer cassettes sans NR if, they are recorded on metal tape. Even with Dolby S, the music has added color, IMO.

Bob

 

When I had a car cassette play I never used Dolby. First, the added compression helped to overcome road noise and the tapes always sounded muffled. I guess the differences in azimuth and other variables screwed around with the decoding.

When I used to have to make cassettes for clients and labels I always left the Dolby off. Still sounded bad though.

 

Steve and Jamie What's the scoop with dolby A? I've seen it in studios only and haven't ever been told exactly what the deal with it is.

 

It was the first Dolby NR. I think it was used on Dark Side of the Moon.

I've also seen an engineer record a vocal through a Dolby A unit to add an exciter sound to it. Dolby A isn't as strong as B and defiantly not as strong as C.

 

I got a lot of 2" Tapes with Dolby SR on them. WTF? You don't need that with 30ips. Dolby SR is multi band noise reduction instead of just high end NR like A & B.

 

I use Dolby "B" without problem, always have.

I use Dolby "S" on certain occasions.

 

dolby-----

withy open reel tape, i agree that no dolby si the way to go. with a nak, B. S onb the sonys (aiwa made a 3head with s that was xlnt). S combined with metal tape is nearly archival quality (for cassette that is).
but whats up with the misunderstanding of A? and S.
A is a four band system with very aggressive compression/expansion ratios. it was ONLY used in professional settings (probably due to expense). it wasnt compatible with ANYTHING else. undecoded it sounds horrible.
S (spectral) IS s and also multiband and i believe it was developed and used primarily for film sound. imho, had it been put into consumer decks in a timely fashion, cd may have had a harder time of it. especially cdr. possibly, cd would have gone to dsd or dvda sooner and we may not have had to endure redbook.
IF theres a tonal coloration to S, then so be it! it quiets the ENTIRE audible frequency band all the way into the lows.
in that i dont have a cassette player in the car anymore (CD) ive stopped using the cassette decks. when i did, i always used b or s and with great results. tone controls take down the brightness and leave the compression. a happy marriage of effects.
i have never thought much of c, it didnt seem to enhance anything. as for b, there used to be alignment (calibration) tapes of cassette and open reel. for cassette use in the car, my friend ALWAYS aligned the cars azimuth to a tape made on his home deck. he used to do tape duplication as a profession and there was always a signal generator and oscilloscope handy.
thanks, steve, for the claifications in the last post. i got to it last before i started my diatribe.

 

What Steve says.

All of the Dolby systems really can work wonderfully well with scrupulous alignment. Unfortunately, though, there's more to it than just getting the Dolby level right, and chances of getting a Dolby B (or worse, Dolby C) tape to play back right on a deck other than the one it was recorded on are slim.

Dolby S is a complicated beast and somewhat more forgiving of mild alignment errors than Dolby C, but still I wouldn't use it unless you really need it.

(Yes, hiss still *is* a problem, even with great decks and tapes, on really wide-range material.)

 

The cassette deck built in to my current minisystem does not have Dolby features at all. On the cassette players I have had that have Dolby features, I never used it at all.

 

For all the hooplah surrounding it, I never have been impressed with dbxII! I have not tried it on my reel-to-reel yet, but with cassette there was just too much pumping and breathing. At one point, I even had a decoder for the car!

Never had a problem with Dolby C personally. Always used Dolby B for car cassettes, but it took a very expensive head unit to make it playable in the car. Thing is, I did not expect the ultimate fidelity from cassettes and, as mentioned earlier, there was some dynamic compression involved that bothered me almost as much as azimuth alignment. So Dolby seemed the lesser of cassettes' evils IMHO. I've had two Harman/Kardon decks that sounded great...and I've had cheaper decks that just couldn't cut it, Dolby-wise.

 

Dolby C and NoNoise are twins and they both suck! Let 'er rip naturally!

 

Have used Dolby B and C without problems on Naks. I have switched the tapes between my Nakamichi decks without problems (BX300, CR4A, and DR-10), but not with other brands, where I suppose some anomalies would be evident. The CR has always been a great deck, probably the best of the three, and is actually little less bright than the others. Real smoooooth...

Nonetheless, I do agree that the best arrangement is to play back the tape on the same deck as it was recorded if possible.

 

Dolby "C" does suck! I just wish I hadn't recorded so many tapes with it in the mid-80s.

Again, I have never had any problems with playback compatability of my Dolby "B" tapes. I guess I am one of those unusual people...

 

Steve, what Dolby decoder do you use for mastering?

 

I thought maybe some decoders are better than others.

As far as I know the SR decoder (363?) also has Dolby A capability, I thought maybe it is a little better than the original equipment, but this is pure theory.

 

Do you have your Dolby equipment tweaked?